What would you do? Poker hand of the Week.

I just joined a $1.50 fast 50 tourney at PokerStars.  10 seats, top 5 get paid $1.35 plus 4c for every 100 chips.

The opponent has been betting from the off here and I've called him all the way to this point.  He has bet 720.

What would you do?

blue

I think I'd fold blue.I can see you are chip leader but with only Ace high and him going in $720.I'd save my chips for later on.

I would fold.

medtrans

i think you have to run away or put him all in.......and i think i would run

I gotta jump on the "I'd fold" bandwagon here... I am not sure that is not based on my own growing prejudice about 2 pairs... I always lose the hand on those... or on the facts of the case...

But then there is a good chance he is invested in the pot so much that he is making this $720 bet in hopes of convincing you and recapturing his bets thus far in the hand... hmmm maybe call him, you can afford it...

So, what did you do blue?

katt

Thank you all for your replies; I do appreciate them.

After weighing everything up, taking into account the bets that he made and going with my gut, I decided to call.  I figured if I lost the hand, it would cost me 28c (700 x 4c per 100 chips) but if I win, it would be worth 56c (1400 x 4c per 100)

I knew I probably should have folded but you know when you get that feeling, you just can't throw that pot away.

Here is the outcome:

As you can see, he was chasing the flush, which he didn't make and was just doing a very expensive continuation bet.

The end result was that I was 1st of the 5 winners and won $3.72.

blue

Excellent choice blue! Well done!  :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd :-bd

katt

wp hun

This is an interesting hand at PokerStars.  Everyone limped in as you can see from the pot in the middle.  I didn't raise although I probably should have but my thinking at the time was that these are fish and I'd seen them getting lucky time after time.

The other two opponents have thrown their chips in the pot and it's me to act.  You can see I have 2 overcards plus a spade for a runner runner flush.

Question is what would you do?

I would fold.  Looks like you are playing with two fish in this hand and they caught something.  Why would 2 people go all in on these cards unless they shouldn't have played their two cards in the first place?

medtrans

I would so want to go all-in with that flop and knowing they are fish... but, I would not risk my whole stack in such an iffy situation... if one or both have a matching pair you're facing 3 of a kind or if one can fill the straight you could be out in the blink of an eye... so, I would fold.

katt

I forgot about the fact that each could have a pocket pair.  Duh!!!  But then wouldn't one or both have raised before the flop?

I still would fold. 

Can't wait to see what they had.

medtrans

Now medtrans that is something I didn't consider... a pre-flop raise with a pair in the hole... hmmm... If they did have a pair in the hole, they would be smallish pairs and perhaps would just call to test the waters... can't wait to find out "the rest of the story!"

katt

Thank you ladies for your great comments.

I did actually fold.  I missed the flop totally and considered one or both had got lucky with top pair or a straight draw.

Here is part "deux"

I'll give you the final card in a moment.

OMG blue! How can anyone think they should call an all-in bet with a 27 off? It is quite bad enough the first guy went in with that 89 off at least there is the tiniest chance of a straight, but probably just trying to take the blinds... but the second guy? Jeeeezzzz...

katt

Ahhh...the frustration of poker.  Unbelievable.  Must have been a cheap tourney.  People just don't do this kind of stuff for "real" money.

medtrans

They both suck. 72 off - shouldn't even be in the game and 89 off is way out of position for a call with rubbish like that.  I doubt they would have folded if I had raised.

So with all their rubbishy calls, here is the final outcome.  

The open ended straight wins against trip 7s.  Neither of them should have been in the hand and when it comes to players like these 2 jokers, it's best to just limp in if you can, cos no matter what you bet, they were always going to call.

blue

I hear you.  That is so wrong and happens to me all the time because I only play free or cheap tourneys.  Neither should have been in the hand from the get go. 

medtrans

They should both be shot at dawn! They do shoot people for being totally ignorant don't they? No? Ok, well then they should be keel-hauled! That is probably the one most frustrating thing about poker... people like that and the fact that they actually fill these wild hands and win...

katt

Yes katt.  Frustration, frustration, frustration.  That's how it is when playing cheap poker.  And has always been my big complaint.  But I keep on trudging on...hoping to outsmart them.  But it is hard, especially when I get so frustrated that I play just like them.  LOL LOL  But most times I am not as lucky as they are.

medtrans

Well it's been a long time since a hand was posted in here.

This is a 99c 4k gtd tourney with R & A up to 2nd break.

See the attached pic and bear in mind that this is a rebuy and addon tournament so play is pretty fishy.

What would you do?

blue

always when there is possibility of a royal i have to atleast raise the blind level..

I'd go for it since if you lose the hand it will only cost the 99c to rebuy.

I agree with you about the fish thing too...bunch of guppies!! LOL

fold

Thank you everyone (so far) for your replies.  I'll post what I did tomorrow.

blue

fold

I'd play it, all in to try to get the other players out of it. I think all-in dude is trying to take the antes... can't wait to find out how it turned out blue!

katt

The result of the "what would you do" hand is that I folded.

I didn't think the hand was strong enough and I actually made the right decision.  See the picture attached.

Thanks for all your replies everyone.

If you have a hand that you would like to post in this thread, please feel free. 

blue

I guess it's a little late to give my opinion now, but I will anyway.  

If I had less than $4,000, I'd call it and re-buy for the $0.99 if my hand was unsuccessful.  

In your case, I would have also folded.  You have nearly $4,500, so you've basically already increased your starting chip stack by 12.5%, I would be hesitant to throw that away with four people who COULD call after me as well as the original all-in.  

If I had the same hand in Sepp514's position, and everyone folded around the table, I'd probably go ahead and call that.

In a poker game w/o a $0.99 re-buy, there is no way I would ever call that.  I would start out behind in the hand to absolutely any Ace or Pair wired up.  In fact, you would be a 54/46 dog to A-7, off-suit, and you'd have to assume that anyone calling after you would have better than that.

Good laydown.  

EDIT:  I also forgot to mention that even if you went all-in, nobody else called, and you lost, you would not be able to re-buy immediately as you would still have cash left that you would have to play through.  That is time that you really can't afford to lose when you are trying to build a stack for the later rounds of a tournament.  Oddly enough, if I was to go all-in on such a hand, assuming the re-buy is there, I would ONLY do it if a loss would bust me.

Good point in your PS.  If my stack was just 1x or 2x the starting stack, I likely would have called as I could have done a double rebuy and be in the same position.

The thing about this tourney was the 3 x $10,000 add-ons available during the break.  This was a new style tournament at 888Poker and whilst I liked the fact that you could add $30,000 to your stack during the break, it did seem pretty pointless and just a way to get players to spend more money.  That said, this was a $4k guaranteed tourney limited to 900 players and the payouts were pretty nice for such a small buyin.

I did buy those 3 x addons but failed to make it into the cash.

blue

Those are tremendous payouts relative to the size of the buy-in.  However, I agree with your position that the 30K during the break was just to get the players to spend more money.  You woduln't put yourself at a disadvantage by not doing so. 

I would say that those 3x add-ons, assuming 75% of the players got them, accounted for $2,025, then you have your original $900 for the buy-in and all of your re-buys.  That's definitely an excellent guaranteed tourney, I would imagine the casino didn't bring in a lot more than that.

I'm sorry you didn't finish in the cash.  If it makes you feel better, I've played in about twenty live tournaments (zero on-line) and only cashed twice.  The first of the two was basically just getting back what I put in...after two re-buys.  I did well the second time, about 40x my entry.

40x your entry - that's a bit of a result.  Congrats on that.

I did play a live tourney at a casino and I have to say the players were horrible. They made some really nasty comments about me (I was one of the few women that entered) and despite trying to let it go over my head, it did get to me.  This was an R & A tourney too with a buyin of £55.  They had all re-bought 2 or 3 times before I was knocked out at the table I was at.  The good news was that my son managed to place 7th and he won £350.  He went out on pocket 10s against an ace rag player who got lucky with his ace.

I do prefer online play but I don't like some of the RNG's.

blue

Thank you for the compliment.  I actually placed in second in that tournament, but I was about a 15:1 dog going heads-up, so I had virtually no chance of winning.  In fact, I was the short stack going into the final table, so I simply played it really close to the vest just hoping to get into...maybe the top five...before the blinds ate my stack.

I only went all-in twice during the final table, one of the times being the last hand, of course.  The other time I got dealt Pocket Rockets out of the big blind and the table folded around to the Small Blind who went all-in to try to steal my blind with 10-6, off-suit, or something like that.  Good move by him, in my opinion, just awful timing...he couldn't have known.  That didn't knock him out, either, as he had three times my stack at the time.

I'm sorry to hear about the disparaging comments that were directed towards you at the table.  I can certainly appreciate that there's a good deal of Psychology involved with live poker, but I try to play with some class, dignity and decorum, and there is a certain line where even Psychological Warfare becomes inappropriate and demeaning.  It sounds like that line was crossed, but unfortunately, that tends to be the nature of that particular beast.

I think that's why Howard Lederer is my favorite Pro Poker Player.  All class, all the time, and he's a mathematical genius. 

You did very well then being the short stack going into the final table.

On reflection, I should have followed my son's example.  Every hand he played, he just stared at the middle of the table; he didn't break that poker face of his and he gave nothing away.  He ignored the comments and questions and just stared.  It was amazing to watch.

blue

You did very well then being the short stack going into the final table.

 

On reflection, I should have followed my son's example.  Every hand he played, he just stared at the middle of the table; he didn't break that poker face of his and he gave nothing away.  He ignored the comments and questions and just stared.  It was amazing to watch.

 

blue

Thank you for the compliment, again!  

That's one of two ways to do it, the way your son did.  I have a tendency to reveal to muh when I try to play stoic, so I'm intentionally as fidgety as possible.  I change my position in my chair, the way I hold/check my cards, the ways I turn my head, sometimes I blink rapidly and others I try not blink at all, switch up the way I put my chips in, announce the bet or don't announce it verbally in a strict three-three pattern, that sort of thing..  I basically just hope that my behaviour is erratic enough as to be rendered meaningless if someone is trying to pick up a tell.

Your son does sound amazing, though, that's the better of the two ways to do it.  The only reason why I don't is because I can't.

This is a cheap tourney buy in and the blinds are 1k/2k.  You are about 4 places away from cashing out and you are dealt   . 

You have enough for one more big blind and you are currently BB in this hand.  Someone raises you all in (the big stack/table bully).  What do you do?

blue

i have to fold this late even though the stack now, only the best to the blind well have to do in my opinion.

I'm going to assume that the guy that went all-in posted the Small Blind, otherwise he would be risking his chips against greater chip stacks than yours with whatever cards he has.  I'm also going to assume, just for these purposes, that he doesn't have a stellar hand.

The first thing that we have to realize is that he made the correct play given that he posted the Small Blind.  He's protecting his blind and he realizes that you are either going to Fold (and hope to backdoor your way into the cash) or call with whatever pile of crap you happen to have because a win will enable you to survive at least three more big blinds before you are all-in, by default.

In short, we're going to use this information to understand that the play he made is almost always the correct play, (something like 7-2, off might be an exception) so he doesn't have a dominating hand or anything...even though it could just so happen that he does.

Interestingly, heads-up (and you're basically playing heads-up at this point given that your opponent's decision was not based on the actions of previous players...they all folded) Queen-Garbage, Off-Suit is almost exactly a 50%er.  In fact, I believe it is either Q-5, off or Q-4, off where you first fall below 50%.

Because this hand has about a 50/50 chance of winning against x-x, I'm going to go ahead and call it.  

The reason for my decision is because I could find myself in a much worse situation when the big blind comes around to me again.  For example, imagine I were to get dealt Q-4, off again, but this time three or four players call the big blind (or raise/call) and stick around to see the flop.  With three players (including myself) still in for the pot my Q-4, off against X-X and X-X is only about a 25-30% hand.  If three of my opponents stay in for that, then I am about 20% to win against x-x, x-x and x-x.

In other words, you're not even getting even pot-odds at that point.  With the Q-4, off against x-x your payout was 2:1 and you were about 50% to win, so at least the pot odds were there.

The highest card often survives as a kicker in a heads-up situation, which is the reason why Q-4, off is probably a better hand than you expected it to be.

The other problem is that if Q-4, off is a 50%er, then the probability of you getting a better hand for your All-In in the Dark is just as high as the probability of drawing a worse hand.  Once again, the difference is that youmight be up against more hands in the latter instance, so technically you're hoping and praying for a MUCH better hand than your 50%er.

Finally, virtually everyone in the tournament starts playing a bit more conservatively when it comes near cash-time, except for your biggest stacks.  It's worse to be the first guy out of the cash than it is to be the first guy out of the tournament, because the first guy out of the tournament did not invest hours into grinding his way through.

In other words, it's pretty unlikely (and becomes less likely with the fewer people that will cash) that four players are going to drop out before the big blind comes around to you again, if that's what you were hoping for.  Further, you will also risk going all-in in the dark with a hand that is less than 50%, particularly if you are up against more than one opponent.

If you call and win, however, then there may be a decent shot of you sticking around to cash before the big blinds eat you up.  It might become necessary to make another move, though, but at least you have a couple of hands to wait for a more favorable situation.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to call that.  I'm 50% to win the hand heads-up against x-x.  I don't know if I am going to even get anyone alone again, so this could very well be the best chance I have at keeping myself in until cash time.

only 3 other ladies in the deck is what i am going with.. more than likely winning drop. if they come out.

In way fewer words than Mission146 (btw thanks for the lesson Mission! :-bd ) I would also play that hand at that point. And for pretty much the same reasons Mission gave, but in my poker shorthand to myself, it would sound more like do or die, cause you are going to die without a fight otherwise! And it is a low buy-in so, I won't be losing much but my time if the fight does not go my way.

Besides, it gives me another chance to say damn, I did it again!  ;)

So, my little blue, what did you do?

katt

Thanks for the great replies everyone.

The guy that raised all in was not small blind, he was actually in the mid position.  I must admit that I hovered over that fold button for a short time. 

I thought about my stack and the fact that I would lose half of it when I was SB in the next hand which would leave me with enough to be "ante'd out" before I was BB again.  So it was a case of stand a chance of winning a reasonable stack now or be ante'd out before I was BB again.

So I called and the guy that raised me all in had 78 off.  He hit a 7 on the flop and I hit a glorious Queen on the river. 

That decision meant that I virtually trebled my stack because of the ante's.  I did in fact come 3rd in the tourney and trebled my buyin.

blue

Way to go blue! Sounds like it was no "treble" at all for you to whoop butt and come in in the money!  LOL LOL

katt

Way to go blue! Sounds like it was no "treble" at all for you to whoop butt and come in in the money!  LOL LOL

 

katt

LOL Great play on words Katt.

blue

Thanks for the great replies everyone.

 

The guy that raised all in was not small blind, he was actually in the mid position.  I must admit that I hovered over that fold button for a short time. 

 

I thought about my stack and the fact that I would lose half of it when I was SB in the next hand which would leave me with enough to be "ante'd out" before I was BB again.  So it was a case of stand a chance of winning a reasonable stack now or be ante'd out before I was BB again.

 

So I called and the guy that raised me all in had 78 off.  He hit a 7 on the flop and I hit a glorious Queen on the river. 

 

That decision meant that I virtually trebled my stack because of the ante's.  I did in fact come 3rd in the tourney and trebled my buyin.

 

blue

Great play, BlueDay.

I think that I would have ultimately still called, but I might have been a bit more hesitant at that point.  Did he give a true, "All-In," or did he just raise your stack?

If it was a true, "All-In," I'd have been concerned he might have something, because then he is putting his stack up against other people who might call, and not just against you.

I probably still would have called, though.  Getting someone heads-up when you are hurting that badly is about as favorable as a situation is going to get.

Let's say that your forced all-in is King-Queen, suited, but two other players were to stay in.  You're only 47% to win with KQs against x-x and x-x, of course the pot odds would be there.  You're just looking to stay alive, though, so pot odds shouldn't be a primary concern, your actual probability of winning a hand should.

The odds are also not in favor of you getting a hand as good as KQs in the dark. 

I believe he put me all in Mission146 rather than himself.  He was not the largest stack at the table but the other players were quite tight so he was just bullying.

I figured he didn't have much and I was right and if neither of us had hit, I would have still won.  I was lucky not to be knocked out by his 7s he hit on the flop.

He made a comment in a foreign language at the end of the hand which I didn't even bother to look up.  I guessed it was something rude.

blue

my last tourney was my 6th place finish for qualifying in the LSOP 4 seats to continue.. and well honestly just ran out of stack.. when the blind caught me with nothing really of much to call on..if i had just called a more occassional donkish hand every so often throughout the tourney i would perhaps had more "gas to finish"

my last tourney was my 6th place finish for qualifying in the LSOP 4 seats to continue.. and well honestly just ran out of stack.. when the blind caught me with nothing really of much to call on..if i had just called a more occassional donkish hand every so often throughout the tourney i would perhaps had more "gas to finish"

It's a fine line Tim and I know what you mean.  Trouble is when you keep getting the same rubbish hand after hand there isn't much you can do about it....and then you run out of chips.

blue

I would print out the charts and keep them with you, or memorize parts of them.  I have parts of them memorized, but that's because the majority of my Poker play is at the physical casino.

If you're hurting and you can get someone alone on a 60%er or better, that's always good.  I think you would be surprised by some of the hands that qualify.  Would you have ever thought that Q-4o was about 50-50?

Yea i can see Q 4 50 50.. at some point to it.

Ok, here is a WWYD for ya... this was a freeroll for tickets to a Freeroll Super Series next Saturday. Additional info, 25 places paid, 17 places out of the money, all-in player was doing that a lot and getting lucky.

katt