The Great Weekly New Debate

Also i beleive, since both parents are working, children growing up in a working family have changed and it has affected the society. Alot are without supervision, and are almost growing up on their own. Making choices and descions without adult mentors to advise them. So what's a child going to do but act like a child into adulthood. They join gangs for the togetherness and leadership. Parents are too tired to even interact. Theres so much more of the effects of both parents working as compared to stay at home parenting.
So is the American Dream really worth it? We are losing our children in this sacrifce.

Thanks to Bush and Obama, the American dream has been put on hold for at least a generation.  Their wild spending and borrowing has created such a huge debt load that this will be the first generation ON RECORD that does worse, financially, than the one before.  Sad days.  Happiness will have to be without financial success....hmmmm...not a bad thing, though! 

Basically we are working are butts off for nothing..? The only thing we can enjoy is eat and sleep, and barely that. Gas and food are so high as well.
No one has a future?.. Some people are so troubled by our (americas) and their own debts they are having heartattacks and strokes, some are commiting suicide.
Some are even going so far as getting into selling illegal merchandise (drugs and et el etc.), and we know why they do that, can't afford the taxes..

Great topic lips. When you said that we are deep in credit card debt, that caught my attention. I am in banking and I must tell you that the federal regulations are becoming more stringent on banks to protect the consumer. I agree to a certain extent and many lenders have not been on the up and up but when does the responsibility fall on us as consumers? If I buy something I can't afford that is my problem. I shouldn't need the government to babysit me because I can't control myself. After all, you did say "we" are in debt.

grapeu.....well, the Government IS going to be baby sitting us.  They want to control the type cars we drive, how much money we make, how much electricity we use, how much health care we receive, etc.  The day of Big Brother has arrived. 

Doc, what do you think would be the consequences by over stepping the boundaries the "babysitters" have been controlling us with?
What if we all stopped using electricity, stop buying gas, screw it im not paying my taxes this year, and so forth.. They are depending on us therefore we are depending on ourselves. We are footing our own bill.

P.S. We cannot predict the future, as far as buying something now we figured we could afford, (years of doing well and good credit) then unforseeningly a month later lose your job, had no way of knowing that would happen, little by little the middle class person goes into a debt he can't ever catch back up with. Late fees, interest fees and whatever else kind of fees are added, you can't keep above water.

drpsyce38, the goverment IS going to be babysitting us? They already ARE.

Imagin.ation, I have to comment on buying something now you thought you could afford.
You are correct that we can't predict the future. That is why anytime we buy something with money we do not actually have, the potential that anything can happen should automatically enter our minds.

I totally agree with you, Grapeu.

By the way, great topic, Lips. 

Then why even bother with credit? Credit is depending on future..
Future depends on us
Paying our bills and getting that a1 credit is a goal we work for..
We can't always just think something like that is going to happen, we think
it will not happen, it does and we end in debt with fees fees fees, who gets those fees, what are they for, we just take it for granted and figure
200.00 in fees is for paperwork, processing, and to hear someone call us up with if you pay 1000.00 now on a card you only used 500.00 in real credit it will bring you just below the deep end of the water, cards are frozen you can't use them any longer, but you are continueing with bookoo fees..
The credit thing is crazy and out of control, why is it..?
Credit depends on future, future depends on keeping your job and paying the bills, paying the bills gives you credit and a future.
The cycle.. we need to recycle our own systems..


P.S. I myself have been in the situation, luckily i got out of debt, but i have a friend that is in misery, and she was way well off then i was..

One of my casinos just offered me  $5000. in credit....

What the heck do you think of that??  Talk about the downfall of America.

   I have found that the American dream has changed from when the founders fought to create this country that their fight was basically for the greater good of all.
    In today's society it is for the greater good of oneself. Let your neighbor suffer as long as you are not. It's now what can "I" achieve not what can we achieve. Just recently, I was talking , more like arguing with my 19 year old nephew and his girlfriend about this sort of thing. What really hit me was their beliefs that their rights in this country is to live the dream by only worrying about themselves and if people are losing their jobs its not their problem those people should go get another or two jobs or even three if they have to to support their families. Those peoples misfortunes are their own problems not theirs.
    This is where our country is going wrong.People need to stop only thinking of their own survival and others dint matter. Too many times people like that get into high positions like CEO's. People who take what they need or want and dint care about the people who work for them.
    Greed runs this country not the people. Wars are created to make money, people are laid off to assure the greedy ones get theirs, insurance companies deny to keep cash flowwing, and yes banks create credit cards to charge their interest for their upper management.
    If you seen all CEO's live with 30% less than what they get, there would be more people working and making better money

Credit is the future, it depends on it..
We cannot predict the future, therefore.. Credit is not some kind of nestegg we work our butts off to have, credit takes our future and flushes our life away. Credit is the working persons prison.. you are marked for it.
We have no choice.. this cycle we are stuck in so why penalize those that cannot pay do to job loss or anything else unpredictable, credit wants us to default? Is it expected?



Louiseff.. you are right GREED and FEEEEEES!!!

Louiseff.  I have to agree with you 100% on the greed point!  I think a big part of the current economic problem stems from greed.

Now, where I might diverge a bit from your point is your quickness to blame CEOs.  Yes, some have been greedy, greedy, greedy.  But MORE people were greedy and bought houses they could not afford, or took out lines of credit they could not afford.  Yes, the banks gave those loans out (the idiots!)  but people are not mindless creatures.  Good decisions have to be made.

Thanks to people like Dictator Obama, we have a blame game going on focusing on a few greedy CEOS.  Where is the accountability for average citizens living within their means?  Where is the accountability of our government borrowing trillions of dollars?  Even if we taxed the "greedy CEOs" at 90% the revenue would be a drop in the sea compared to the trillions in debt we are racking up.

If our legistrators, CEOS, presidents, and who ever else is up their collar in our government with their undeserved wages, took just a half of wage cut, gave that half back to america, and paid proper taxes (ahem) it could probably settle half our debt

Bring them to our level, let them see what it is REALLY like.

    My mom always told me history repeats itself. Dig into the history of the world and look at all sides of governments, wars, buisness. You will see these problems we face are not the first but the first for OUR generation. Same problems just a different year.
    We humans are destined to repeat our mistakes no matter how much lower class humans scream, vote and protest.

Louiseff....well....keep in mind, I am no Bush fan!  He was an economy wrecker, too.  I blame him as much as Obama.  So, the old "Bush was WORSE" is pretty moot.

Bush's largest deficit was $400 billion.....which is TOO high.  Obama = $1.4 trillion.

One is hard pressed to find anyone Obama's wild borrowing and spending have benefited, save Wall Street firms and assorted government workers. 

Imagination....
If we took 90% of all CEOs pay in tax, it would be TINY compared to the deficit that Dictator Obama is racking up.

Under Obama you will:
Be paying for taxes and fees.
Be paying more for energy.
More for health insurance.
Rationed health care.

And Obama said unemployment would stop at 8% under his WONDERFUL Stimulas package.  Hmmmm...its 10% now with no end in sight.

Already tires cost more for your car, up 20% due to Obama's direct policy.  Just tires, yes, but a herbinger of things to come.....

Keep buying gold, folks.  The Obama Depression is coming.  And folks, I am a Democrat!  lol

    i don't want to get in a big thing with anyone , but drpsyce38 it sounds to me like you don't have the complete story but just partial facts . And your using parts to try to make your argument . 
    Now that being said I'm not pro Bush or Obama . Yes when Bush left office there was a debt of 400 billion , but that's not all that was left during his term is when all the bad mortgages  were handed out .  which led to a globale recession . Now Obama comes along and he has to try to stimulate the economy so the money he puts in would have had to be done by anyone else in his position . Now I'm not saying the way he is trying  stimulate the economy is right . I believe he's f***d up big . But there hasn't been enough time gone by yet to see the full affect of his stimulate package .

bigjay....good points.

But, there is little evidence the Stimulus has done much of anything.  What measurable has been stimulated?  Even a little bit?  One would think dumping billions into the economy, even in one year's time, would have an immediate up-tick SOMEWHERE.  What has blipped up, even in the slightest?

you know when they first passed stimulate package  I thought it was garbage and wouldn't do much but I'm trying hold out to see how it does over a period of time . cause they did say it would not be a quick fix . but the reason i think it'll do little is  they did not put enough towards infrastructure . It will be blue workers that bring our country out of the recession . I think if Obama would have applied half the money he's put out so far to to our countries decaying infrastructure it would have been a win win all a way around . But theres a lot of people out there a lot smarter then me so hopefully I'm wrong and they have done so far is rightfor the countries sake

I want to say really quickly, we all got that stimulus check.. last year mmhmm, good idea there, give it to us, tell us to buy american made..
What did we do..?
We bought japanese, china, german, taiwan, mexico etc etc products lol
How many of us bought american?
They got rich off our stimulus

But, really does anyone here have any good ideas that would help this trouble we are in, would a stimlus work for us to pay our debts?
We have things to say about it, but how about some ideas?

    We will climb out of are recession it's just going to be a slow process . One key thing Obama has done so far was to stop the downward spiral that we were in . it's no quick fix it'll probably 4 to 6 years and even then we will never be back like we were before . But that's good our economy before was false puffed up and could not support it self

bigjay......you are so RIGHT ON!  Where are the bridges, schools, roads, etc. they were going to build?????

They are saving those areas for the windmills they want to build lol
So we can have jobs in 5 years... we have to figure ways to conserve our energy resources for this glorious future we have coming

The system is patch ontop of patch, it just cannot be repaired any more.
We need an all new system, not one made with echoing, selfish conjuring promises but one made with effort.. "yes thats going to work", if it doesn't then its back at one. A devoted panel that cares nothing about anything except to derive a new system to correct this awful mess we are in.

I agree lips. We are in a mess with no way for a quick clean up.
I think we sit back and point the finger because "it's his job". If any one of us were assigned this massive task, how judgemental would we be? 

No one can clean it up in one year...agreed!  However, one can make it worse very quickly.  And that is what Obama is doing.  

Fact:  He has borrowed and spent more in one year, than all the Presidents in US history did COMBINED.

He is making people dependent on government.  Millions will become wards-of-the-state.***

He wants to tax "the rich" to pay for all this, but there are not enough rich people to satisfy his spending mania.  Already 86% of all taxes are paid by just 25% of the workforce.  (Up from 84% in 2000)  The top 1% pay 40% of ALL taxes.  There simply are not enough rich people to tax anymore.  This means average people are going to see a huge increase in taxes (or taxes disguised as "fees.")

You will be forced purchase health insurance at 12% of your salary.  If you fail to do so, you can be put in jail.  This is in the Bill up for vote this week in the Senate.  No one denies this reality in the proposed legislation.

***Just look at the Youtube videos of people REALLY believing Obama is going to give them a free car, house, and spending cash.

Drpsyce38, your president for the next year. Tell us what your agenda is.

grapeu......bottom line:  Do not create a debt so large no one can pay it off.  This is the number one killer of the economy.  Cut spending.  Cut, cut.  Do not raise taxes.

Monogamy is a wonderful thought but I truly do not believe that humans are meant to be monogamous. In my opinion, that is why there are so many relationships destroyed by unfaithful partners. Many of us can consciously make the choice to be with one person or partners may make the choice to have the infamous “open relationship”. Marriage is for those people. Bottom line, both people must be on board.

Marriage is sacred to me, you make vows to God and each other.
One partner for me for life is all i'll need, whatever sexual desires my husband needs or wants i'll be all that. I'll be Tinkerbell one night and Ms.SheWolf the next, all my love, devotion, attention, concentration etc goes to my husband, my mind, heart, body and soul are his.
With issues as "swingers" it makes it so marriage was more of its convinence, having the papers just for security. Why get married if you are just going to fool around. You want other sexual partners don't get married.
I think with the swingers thing your marriage heads for trouble.

I have to have feelings to have sex with a man, perferable love..
It aint just wham bam thank you MAN for me..
Sex is not just sex to me.. it is a gift of love and passion to my partner, that i have for him..
It just doesn't do the do for me when its just sex.. 

Well.. why do we marry?

You know some countries, up to 4 wives are allowed, the marriages are more of showing wealth, pride, prominence.. and more..
It's not even about sex or love.. how strange is that?
I could never see myself happy in a marriage, my husband married with 3 other women.. hell no, and seriously i don't know how they do it and get along.
Gosh.. knowing my husband is off to the next room with another wife having sex.. or another household gone for days with her, or even all at the same time lol

The swing thing can work great there lol..
Not for me im not sharing my husband, and i'd smack him if he even thought about it!!! Just kidding on smacking him

Psychology 101....people have sex for many, many different reasons. 

I truely believe the American dream is to have happiness and peace in there lives.  To be able to live comfortably and not worry about how or when they are going to be able to pay the rent and other bills or if they will be able to afford food for the family until the next paycheck comes in.  I know money does not buy you happiness but it does provide the essentials for living.

I think it is unfair.. but its fair for a reason..

You are only heard if you are intelligently and meaningfully speaking, i beleive also it is designed to protect the "establishment" and not the individual, that is where it is not fair..

Freedom of speech.

Currently, the biggest threat to freedom of speech is what is commonly called "political correctness."  Now, in all fairness, for years what CONTROLED dialogue was white/male/rich power structures.  So, this may be a case of "turn about being fair play!"

However, political correctness does squelch debate.  For example:

If one opposes Obama on a matter, at times the race card is played.  "You only say that because Obama is black!"

If you have legitimate concerns about environmental issues, but really question the science of "global warming"  then you are a painted as a killer of polar bears and a member of the proverbial Flat Earth Society.

Etc...