betphoenix casino problem

Here is the synopsis...I have been playing at betphoenix casino in the slot tournaments. I deposited 40.00 and played nothing but the slot tournaments. I had my money built up to over 1300.00 and then tried to withdraw some of it. I put in for the withdrawal on 9/4/2010. Member services sent me an email on 9/7/2010 stating that I needed to send in my documents to process my withdrawal. On 9/8/2010 the very next day I was sent an email stating that there was a free chip in my account. Why didn't they notify me of this on 9/7/2010 before they asked me to send in my documents? They also told me that there are two different kinds of chips coupon free chips and courtesy free chips. Courtesy free chips show up in your real balance and you can't use them at your leisure. Supposedly that is what I received. I was playing on real money that I deposited. They claim that their automated system was down to notify me that a free chip had been deposited into my account. All that they can give me is an apology but the thing is that they admitted that they were at fault. I should be able to withdraw my money. I guess they were looking for a loophole so they created one. Needless to say since that happened to me the pots have dropped dramatically. They used to have set pots of 200.00 300.00 450.00 etc. Now they start at zero and build from there. They only ones that are set now are the free tournaments. I just want people to be aware of this casino and the reputation that they are building for themselves.

ive been wary for months  :-\ thanks for the post

I am just trying to look out for whomever I can...

Thinking back BetPhoenix tried to sabotage my winning by inserting a free chip into my account (it cost me some of my winnings to have it removed, *sneaky*) but I was able to get roughly 60% of the money).  Very suspect...

How did you manage to get 60% of your winnings? They won't even return any of my emails. Please let me know.

I live chatted with the manager Dean Carter.  He's a bit on the stingy side, but if he sees you are a moderate to frequest depositor, he's try to work with you.

I tried doing a PAB. It worked for my money at mighty slots when I was ripped off there but they claim that the casino wouldn't budge at betphoenix so they closed my case. I will try that.

I just talked to Dean and he says he will get back to me on Friday. I don't know if I will get any of my money but he said he would get with the person that gave me the free chip without notifying me of it. Thanks for the help Joseph. It was worth a shot. I will let you know what happens.

Talking to him didn't work... He had me thinking that we could come to an agreement but I was wrong....he wouldn't budge.

They've got a lot of "don't ask cuz we won't tell" rules there.  Best bet is forget about this one, make nice with Dean, and try again to win with your own cash.  If you want to.  They do pay when all rules have been followed.  Best of luck to you!

I told them I was going to withdraw my real balance and I wouldn't be back.

I can suggest you to private message NicolasJohnson whos Rep for this casino


Zuga

im sorry for being re dundent but does any1 know the tourney rules
? :-\

I have tried that Zuga. He says they won't budge.

Hi Kbec980915,

I understand you talked to Dean. Try PMing Nicolas, whos our approved Casino Rep here on LCB, and he might be able to help you.

They have some specific tournament rules, so I hope Nicolas will be able to clear things up.

Zuga

I have talked to Nicolas also and he says they won't budge.

I will email Nicolas, and ask him to come on board and shed some light on this issue.

Being that its a weekend, we might have to wait til Monday for his reply.

Zuga

Ok they claim that they gave me the free chip when my balance was .01 I was never informed of it and I really don't think my balance dropped that low but that is what they are sticking to.

I appreciate you trying to help me Zuga.

here is my understanding of their bonus rules, for what it's worth.  I know Nick has been really sick lately and hope he is feeling better.

1.  You aren't allowed to play any tourneys with your bonus money.
2.  You aren't allowed to play any tourneys when bonus money is in your account
3.  Any bonus is the same rules, free, manager's, prize, whatever.  Don't play tourneys.
4.  They won't stop you from playing tourneys with your bonus money.
5.  If you ask for that .01 in your account so you can play tourneys, that's bonus money.  You can't cash it out.
6.  You can gain those loyalty points, but never cash out, if you play tourneys with any bonus money in your account.
7.  They reserve the right to change these rules any time, no notice, no matter what, their decisions are FINAL.
8.  If you play with your own money only in your account, you will be able to cash out your winnings. (but I don't understand quite if you have to wager these winnings first...sorry)
9.  Play free tourneys or play only with your own cash if you want to ever

Yes but if I had known about the supposed free chip I would have never even played the free chip I don't like free chips period. I was never notified of the free chip until I put in for the withdrawal. Doesn't that seem a bit fishy??

They are not going to budge anyway.

Well, Kbec980915, I see your PAB has failed at Casinomeister so now you are trying to apply public pressure here.

Let me tell you; it isn't going to work.

You know just as well as I do that the story you are posting all over the internet is not exactly as it happened. Here is the time line of events:

Kbec980915 signs up, uses several free chips and loses. Obviously player understands free chips exist and that they have T&Cs attached to them. Additionally, the player obviously liked free chips enough to take them out of her own accord, quite contradictory to the player's current statements.

Kbec980915 deposits $20 cash, no bonus and play tourneys, loses. Stops playing, obviously, since the player's balance was at $0

Kbec980915 deposits $20 cash again,  no bonus and play tourneys, loses. Stops playing, obviously, since the player's balance was at $0

After noticing the player being inactive for at least half a day, we deposit a $20 free chip. Her balance was at $0.01 when the free chip was applied, this was confirmed by casinomeister.

Player plays tourneys using free chip and brings balance up to $1,400. Player requests cashout.

We inform player she can't cashout; per our T&Cs which say you can't use a free chip to play tourneys.

Player doesn't believe us that the winnings come from a free chip.

After much time spent with our reps, we finally show the player that in her own account it says indeed the player received $20 free chip and won on tourneys from that. The player ACKNOWLEDGES receiving the free chip when her balance was at $0.01 and that her winnings come from this.

She claims she didn't know she received the free chip because an email from our system didn't go out. So we go along with the story that the player believes $20 fell from the sky and offer the player some type of compensation. The player does not want any 'partial' compensation and informs us she will go public in an effort to receive the entire $1,400 winnings from a free chip with a max cashout of $40.

Player goes to casinomeister to apply public pressure. After failing at trying to make it seem like we deposited the $20 free chip while her balance was still above $0.01, the player puts in a PBA. We try to talk about a small partial payment but player wants it all; so we tell the player no and closed the case. PAB was failed.

The player CONTINUES to play with us DURING this whole process.


We apologized to the player over the frustration, and especially because the system email didn't go out. But as someone else said; 'if someone steps on your shoes, do they owe you a new pair?'

Fact is, we cooperated with you during this whole process, yet you felt you can just post negative, insinuating comments against us and get whatever you want; even if you are not entitled to it. We will never allow ourselves to be strong armed. We don't work that way. If you would have cooperated with us, it would have ended differently, but you chose to act unilaterally, demanding things you are not entitled to.



For everyone who thinks this player is truly offended; answer me this; why after getting 'ripped off' as this thread title suggests, did the player keep playing with us? Why would the player keep depositing if the player TRULY believed to get ripped off? Unless of course this is simply a case of strong arming via slander.


@ Joseph Kennedy
I'm sorry to hear your bad experience. I was not aware of your case. If you would be so kind as to PM me about it, I'll be glad to look into it and help. I'm on the player's side by default, since part of my job is handling PR, so I'll be glad and do my best to make you a happy camper.

I know that it is not going to work I have told them to send me my real balance and I am not going to play there anymore. Thanks for your help on this matter. They have made themselves abundantly clear. I was just letting people know what happened to me and it could happen to them also. Thank you Nicolas... I didn't ask for your help anymore you have already told me that.

By the way you don't have to be so rude about it. I don't want to play there anymore anyway you can go back and look that up on the chat session that I had with Dean about it today. It is not worth it anymore.

It was not my intention to be rude. I was avoiding posting here for exactly that reason.

But the fact is, we feel you are trying to strong arm us and that is what has prompted the response you have received.

NO I am not trying to strong arm anybody. I was just letting people know what happened to me I have made several deposits here as well but you failed to mention that. I am not a person who goes online just to find free chips to redeem. I enjoy playing the slot tournaments but I won't be back to betphoenix to do that.

I am really tired of talking about it. Just let it go now.

I can say this, Ive made more than 1 small deposit to play in the tourneys and put in for 3 very small withdrawals from my winnings.  I sent my documents in after my 1st withdrawal and all 3 times my withdrawals were paid in 5 days.  These small withdrawals other than a free chip win at Slots Jungle have been totally painless.  Thank you Bet Phoenix for being one of the few casinos I havent had to go to war against for my withdrawals.  I am still curious about the final outcome of TAADAA's withdrawal from Bet Phoenix tourneys.  TAADAA absolutely killed the competition the one day there were really high tourneys one day one or 2 months ago.

gunnylab,

I was just lucky during that time.  Yes, they paid me, but closed my account afterward, they did not want to do business with me even thou I have not done anything wrong there.  I was just lucky to win and I guessed "winners are not welcome there".
gltu

  hi chilly my dear thanks for trying to answer my question,let me be more specific.Theres been sooooooo many different things said about the tournys my question is as long as you deposit in that month if you win a tourney is the money yours or if you win a small amount,say 10 cents do you have to deposit again in that month to play again?thank you

TAAADAAA, I cant believe they did that to you.  Someone was going to win 1st, 2nd nor 3rd place in those tourneys  it just so happened you had a great day.  Its not like you have control over the spinning.

But..  dont you know??
You have to hit the spacebar with the nail of your left hand thumb!
That way, you will ALWAYS hit a winning combination!
Taadaaa knows this, thats why he's always winning!
RTG software is soooo easy to manipulate!

Ok, just wish this was true.
Some casinomanagers seem to think this is true.
Unfortunately its not.

Or maybe I should try my right hand thumbnail?

Oh, forgot that part.  10.  You need to make a deposit (any amount) at least once a month to be able to cash out from your tourney winnings.  I am not totally sure, but lets say you deposit on day 1, and on day 30 you have no money in your account and then win $1.00.  I'm pretty sure you can play on your winnings and keep anything you win off those winnings.  But if you reach zero and you don't win that $1.00 before your month is out, well, you probably have to deposit.  But maybe Nicolas can let us know if that is correct.

I just reinterate that : If you can dance to their tune, then fine and dandy. If not find another place, there's alot better casinos then BP on the net....Seek and ye shall find.

HAHA, WRONG, I used left hand pinky, .

Ah, so thats your secret!!

Gonna try that now, off to win LOADS of money!!

Just one more thing...I was NEVER offered a settlement like Nicolas said I was. That is why I asked Joseph how he got 60% of his winnings because I would have taken it some is better than nothing. Yes there are alot of better casinos out there.

i dont want to offend anyone but is it just me or havent it been alot of complaints about betphoenix?makes you wonder if theres something with some if not all of them :-\

mmmm-hmmmm; been quite a few

Awww gee Rena, just because they lied about the no deposit/deposit rule and making you cycle through your tourney wins 1X to even collect and lock you out because you either won too often or too much is no reason to think they're bad...:D

Here is a copy of one of the emails that I received about my money. So I assumed they were going to pay me something.Hello Kathy,

Just a quick note to let you know that discussions with the casino are
ongoing and, from my point of view at least, progressing.

The casino has admitted that you were not informed of the free chip as
you should have been.  Normally they have an automated system that sends
out email(s) to inform the player but at the time you were given your
free chip that automated system was not working.  As such you had no way
of knowing that the free chip had been given.

Needless to say I am expecting them to propose a reasonable solution to
what is essentially a problem of their own making.

Just between you and me I'd like to know where you stand on this.  Would
you take partial payment -- by no means are you under any obligation to
do this but it would give me some wiggle room in dealing with the casino
-- or is it an "all or nothing" situation for you?  It's totally your
call, I'd have no problem with it either way.

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Regards,
Max @ Casinomeister.com

Hey Kbec.  Believe me, I was expecting anything from BetPhoenix.  I'm glad I got the 60% of the account balance. 

As far as your free chip situation, you can always call Casinomeister in for an advocate if you want.

I might just do that. Thanks for your advice Joseph.

Hi gals and guys,


From what Ive read so far from this thread, I find that the only thing that casino did wrong here was not notifying the player about the free chip.

But their terms are clear, and state that players can not use free chip to play at tournaments. Therefore any winnings are void.

Betphoenix offered a compensation in this case and I find that to be fair, and not to mention they were in no obligation to offer any free chip in the first place.

Nicolas kindly offered me to provide the evidence for this case, so I plan to see it first before making my final judgment on this case.

P.S.
The topic title has been changed as the previuos title can be misleading.

cheers
Zuga

I am sorry Zuga but I was never offered a settlement offer. If I was I would have taken it. I will go another route if that is what I have to do.

Let me weigh in here, although the casino system was down or did not or could not send out emails stating the free chip was in your acct. The tourney rules are clear, it is just that no way either understands them, or wants to read them. You have already opened up a PAB with CasinoMeister as we see in your email post from MAX. It too is also very clear Please do not post on the internet in regards to your case (PAB), while we are investigating it, as this would make it difficult to solve and hinder your case. I know you are frustrated, but also Nicolas is the Best in the business as far as compromise, with the player and the casino for a positive outcome for all involved. IMO-In fairness she should be offered something to resolve this due to the fact that she was not aware that the freechip was in her acct. Also since the casinos system was down, then that means that NO ONE rec'd e-mails from the casino and freechips etc. Did this happen to anyone else, she was not being picked on and the odds are that it would have effected others. In the scenario "If someone steps on your shoes, are you due a new pair" well you would know if someone stepped on your shoe, she was not aware that she was given a freechip.

i hope you do get everything worked out i really hate how seeing all this feedback about bp makes me feel but like whats been stated over and over again its my choice of where to play and thanks to blue i think ive found my second home.please choose wisely and happy spinning

Also another thing I find interesting is that BP has called me and left a msg several times. Hello, This is whoever we would like to put a freechip in your acct for your loyalty but we nd you to call us back before we can do this, to explain the terms. I am busy so I typically do not call back.