thats it no more online poker

hi all, just gonna have a moan, this morning decided to give paddy power a go so i deposited £100, and after 6 river badbeats in a hour and £60 lighter, i have decided to give up depositing my hard earned on these bogus sites. there is no chance that it can be random!! and i mean 0% random. unless a real random site comes out, i am giving up the game i love. i just cannot take the blatant robbery, and paying the clowns who play 72 off suit and beat my kk. how anyone can call a raise of x6 with 72 off is unbelievable, even more unreal is the k 89 flop. 6 turn, 5 river.  >:( and i know its happens, but not 6 rivers slamming you in 56 mins!! oh well, looks like i might have to take up bingo!! 

Hey dananza,

I know exactly where you are coming from.  It makes you so mad because you know for a fact they would never call in real life.  I've moaned about the RNG's on all the poker sites so many times its unreal.  But like an idiot I still play on them because I just love the game. 

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time. 

blue

Ditto to all above.  It is a shame.

medtrans

best advice for all u poker gamblers. in the long run, u never win, i am a decent player, and only win when playing for real. online poker is for punters. fact. mr magoo, i believe your a good player,(people say u are) and u think u can make a profit off online poker????? well all i can say is ,(good luck)if u can start playing for real, u will be rich!! i love the game, but enough is enough, online poker means not random, not random means, we don't win fairly, we dont win fairly means bad players win, bad players winning means we lose unfairly, that means being a good player as no advantage, that means everyone's equal, and the amount of cash its took me to learn the game, im not willing to let a computer system say who wins. NO MORE ONLINE PUNTING. UNLESS I HAVE A EDGE.

ANYONE KNOW ANY GOOD SNAP SITES???????????????????

Well I don't know of any that dont suck - have you tried http://www.coolhandpoker.com ?  As seen on UK TV - I have no idea about their RNG.

I think its time to do some RNG research for me to find a site that could actually be truly random and not using the same RNG system as every other site on the internet.

blue

Hi Dananza,

I just found this very interesting info @true poker.  Have you tried this site?

Random card shuffling

Given a 52-card deck, there are over 8 x 1066 or 8,065,817,517,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000 possible uniquely shuffled decks.

To understand why so many decks are possible, think of it this way: the first card in the deck is one of 52 possible cards, the second is one of the remaining 51 cards, the third is one of the remaining 50, etc. So, for each of the 52 possible first cards, there are 51 possible second cards, and for each of the 52 x 51 first pairs of cards, there are 50 possible third cards. This logic continued yields 52 x 51 x 50 x 49 ... x 3 x 2 x 1 cards (expressed mathematically as 52!, or 52 factorial) which, multiplied out, yields the gigantic number above!

In order to generate all of these decks, a random-number generation algorithm must be able to yield at least 52! unique random number sequences. Most common random algorithms yield 216, or 65,536 unique sequences; this only covers a minute 8 x 10-61% of the unique decks possible.

True Poker employs a random routine which can generate a virtually endless number of unique sequences (more than 219000 sequences -- a number well beyond the computational power of your pocket calculator!), far more than the number of possible unique card decks; you are thus guaranteed a very 'true' shuffle for any given hand.

It is important to note that random number algorithms are actually known as pseudo-random number generators, because they are not actually truly random, in the sense that natural phenomena (such as a poker room deal) are random. To add 'true' randomness to the process above, we must be able to shake it up with truly random data. This is known as adding entropy, and we accomplish this by mixing in data associated with many truly random system events, such as network activity, player actions, system process timings, etc. You may rest assured that the decks being dealt in True Poker are as truly random as a computer can get, and are undiscoverable to any form of high-tech prediction.

Which poker client/software are the online poker sites using to operate? I have been doing my own research on online card shuffles. However not for poker but for blackjack. Since reading the posts within this thread, I will also do it for poker as well. So far my findings have all been but negative, leaving me to only play blackjack at a land-based casino. Every online casino support has given me the same statement. They believe their system is fair and generates the cards randomly and fairly. Well...my response is...

"Although I believe what you tell me is true and that the cards are generated randomly...your sites however fail to mention that they are generated randomly to add up to 20 or 21 or a winning hand for the dealer. For example, dealer shows a 5 - now let's generate the cards at random - dealer then pulls a K and...A....and...5 = 21...let's do it again...dealer shows a 5 = dealer pulls 7 and a 9 = 21...ok one more time dealer shows a 5 - dealer pulls 8 and a 2 and a 6 = 21..well would look at that..yup the cards were generated randomly - this must mean your system is fair...ya right!!!"

Unfortunately based on my findings the only way I will find online card shuffling to be fair is if the order of the card deck can be produced before and after the cards have been played. For reasons that will enable a company that tests for fairness can see the deck of cards in the order in which they will be played prior to it being dealt out and also afterwards to verify the cards were dealt out in the order they were originally shuffled. This will also enable them to see if there are any questionable card patterns or sequences that would create an advantage to any given player. This test could be used for both blackjack and poker to ensure the fairness of the shuffle. Thus far there has not been a single site that would be able to produce or give me such data. Until then, I will be continue to conduct my own research and tests. Soon I will have material, such as recorded video play of blackjack throughout different sites and applications. I will now add poker as well. If anyone else can do the same and send it to me for my database I would greatly appreciated. * if video recording is not possible, even screenshots or copies of hand history will  be accepted.

In the last part of the final paragraph I copied from true poker's site it says this:

"To add 'true' randomness to the process above, we must be able to shake it up with truly random data. This is known as adding entropy, and we accomplish this by mixing in data associated with many truly random system events, such as network activity, player actions, system process timings, etc. You may rest assured that the decks being dealt in True Poker are as truly random as a computer can get, and are undiscoverable to any form of high-tech prediction."

I think that part that I have highlighted is the important bit - if a whiz kid cannot create a software to predict the shuffle or the randomness of the shuffle for this site, then surely there has to be some weight in their statement.

There is only one way for me to find out how good this site is and that is to download, deposit and play which I will be doing on Monday.

If software can be produced and can manage to predict 3 of 5 cards that will fall on the table, then the RNG is not random and someone somewhere is making loads of dough for not just creating the RNG but also selling software that predicts what the random cards will be....or the "randomness" of the cards is so NOT random, the software knows from the previous flop/cards what hte next cards/flop will be. 

Either way True poker needs to be tested and I certainly will be giving it a go.

blue

i will certainly be giving this site ago, im having withdrawal symptoms already, its only been 2 days. i have read your research and it seems you have done alot of hard work!

on the other post about blackjack random cards, i will defiantly been keeping my eyes open for your posts, as i find it very interesting. most poker players who i have spoken to on here have all said the system is flawed, and its something that really needs looking at.

right im off to give this poker site a whirl!  :) 

Best of luck then Dananza- let us know how it goes.

Would be nice to get a bit of a "heads up" before I deposit on Monday.

Cheers

blue

Just play :) that's all

Just play :) that's all

If only!

Well I've downloaded and received an email which also contains this:

"WIN $40 FOR FREE: Now that you have created an account, you may qualify to play in 4 special Newbie SitnGo tournaments, "

I might have to give em a go.   ;D

blue

i will certainly be giving this site ago, im having withdrawal symptoms already, its only been 2 days. i have read your research and it seems you have done alot of hard work!

on the other post about blackjack random cards, i will defiantly been keeping my eyes open for your posts, as i find it very interesting. most poker players who i have spoken to on here have all said the system is flawed, and its something that really needs looking at.

right im off to give this poker site a whirl!  :) 

I've spent hours in the past looking at RNG's and all the cheating software out there.  I would never purchase it myself but obviously there is a huge market for it and may explain a lot of the fishy calls.

blue

Well guys and gals,

I deposited on true poker and you know whats weird....there is hardly anybody playing on the site.  Do you think its because of their RNG?  Sadly, I haven't managed to get a game yet. I did register for a sitngo but I guess, it only sits there for so long and then the system auto de-registered me and refunded my buy in.

Im going to try again to see if I can get me a game.

More to follow....

blue

good luck blue, i suppose your the guinea pig on this one, hope its better than the rest. (i cant take anymore)  its robbery

Hey Dananza,

Well I only managed to get one game so I couldn't really comment yet and I've not had time for another...yet.  Thanks dananza.

Check your mailbox though for something interesting.

blue

True poker.  What can I say.

The good bits:

The RNG seems to be pretty good.

The bad bits:

Unusually, they want proof of who you are AFTER you have deposited.

Its very very quiet.

You can't get a cheap game cos there isn't anyone playing them.

Its very very quiet......and I mean VERY.

blue

Oh....and its very very quiet.

Did I mention that?

Oh yeah - sorry. 

blue

good advice blueday i've thrown so much money on absolute about time i start playing slots the best site i've played on is Sportsbook, i've been able to cash out twice lol, three years of depositing on Stars and only 1 cash out, UB sucks as well, and full tilt is rigged to me... when Party Poker was available to the US i made a killing, however every other site has my number... the good thing about Sportsbook is you can bet on games... my boyfriend is good so normally he gives me picks and i play poker with his winnings lol, doesn't always go well but at least they let you have fun and sometimes even come ahead.....stars will put the kill switch on you after cashing out the first time...mind you I always crush the 1/2 live at the Taj in Atlantic city so i  know i'm not a fish good luck to all and hopefully we;ll have a good year

ps blueday you give good advice where were you three years ago when i was actually up on online poker lol

I remember the days of cashing out huge amounts from poker sites too but all that has changed now.

A lot of it is down to the televised stuff where you see Doyle winning with 10 2 and every player on a poker site thinks that 10 2 is a great hand.  Sadly, it just means that people are more fishy than they used to be and therefore hit more plus the RNG's on the sites are pretty poor. 

Question:  why would anyone go all in with 23 suited?

Answer:  either they are idiots or they have some sort of software that tells them 3 of the 5 community cards that will fall on the table and that's down to the poor RNG's.

True poker does not have the normal RNG that most sites have and for this reason, I believe there are fewer players on there.  I played last night and won a $3 sitngo which I'm going to post in my blog as soon as I can.  The fact that there are so few people around on there speaks volumes to me.  I did notice the difference with the RNG, particularly where players were trying to make their flush or had a gutshot straight draw and they had more chips than the player they were trying to beat - they didn't hit.  On most sites they would have made it but not on True poker.

Its just a shame there are so few players on there but you can always get a $3 game for some reason......so strange.

blue

Hey dananza,

 

I know exactly where you are coming from.  It makes you so mad because you know for a fact they would never call in real life.  I've moaned about the RNG's on all the poker sites so many times its unreal.  But like an idiot I still play on them because I just love the game. 

 

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time. 

 

blue

Oh yes they do. It happen at a game here just last week. I guy call with those card. I think he get it from online poker lol. But he did win 1 place just not right