RESOLVED: Magical Spin Casino confiscates my winnings of 11755€, because they believe I have used some roulette system

Hello,

I have already contacted the casino rep of Magical Spin Casino one week ago. I have not received any response even though I have seen that the casino rep was logged in shortly after I have sent the message, so he/she has probably read my message.

On 3th October I have won 11755.30 Euro at Magical Spin Casino. I have only played slots and roulette and I have not used a bonus.

However the casino wants to confiscate my winnings and their reason for confiscating my winnings is that I have increased my bet size in roulette with each spin and therefore I would have had an advantage.

I have received three emails from them. On 6th October I have received this email:

_____________________________________________________________

Hello Mathias,

Regarding your last session, we would like to let you know that your account has been sent for further control of your bets made during your gaming session.

This process can occur in case certain bets do not seems to match our terms and conditions.

Regarding our General Terms and Conditions :

8. GAMES
Players wagering more than 10% of their real money deposit in one bet will be identified as high risk players and will be monitored. The Casino reserves the right to cancel all winnings from these abusive behaviors.

You account is now temporary "frozen", meanwhile we will proceed all verification and control of your previous session.

Feel free to contact us in any case for further information,

Regards,

Finance - MagicalSpin

_____________________________________________________________

On 16th October I have received this email:

_____________________________________________________________

Hello Mathias

Firstable, we are sorry for the delay but we had to analyze your last gaming session.

After the analysis of your game session, it appears that you did not respect the general terms and conditions by using a mathematical technique when you played to the roulette: indeed, you played on every spins 4 numbers (straight/split/corner square) adding everytime 100 euros. This mathematical technique is strictly forbidden by our terms and conditions since it distorts normal gameplay and gives the player an unfair advantage :

2.3 By registering on Magical Spin, the user hereby declares and warrants that:
...
- The user is prohibited from using devices such as robots, any other external player assistance (EPAs) program, or techniques that distort normal gameplay and give the player an unfair advantage. The use of a Martingale system is prohibited.

7.4 The use of automated mathematical techniques which do not give place to chance, especially roulette games, is not permitted and may be considered a fraud or cheating technique.

Therefore, and as per our general terms and conditions, the last session is canceled and so your full balance is canceled too.

Best regards,
Finance - MagicalSpin

_____________________________________________________________

Later on 16th October I have received this email:

_____________________________________________________________

Hi again,

You can make it public, this is a mathematical technique and it is strictly forbidden by the general terms and conditions you accepted.

To explain you : on every spin, with this mathematical technique, you have a probability of winnings by 1/9, so after 9 spins you are almost sure you are going to win. By adding 100 euros on every spin you make sure that after 9 spins the winnings will be higher than the money wagered. So, it is an unfair advantage and it is a fraud.

For example, with your method :
After 9 spins you would bet 10.350 euros (750+850+950+1050+1150+1250+1350+1450+1550), for winnings of (on the 9th spin) 13.950 euros.

As you can see, you are almost sure that you are going to win money with this method.

Best regards,
Finance - MagicalSpin

_____________________________________________________________

All I did was increasing the bet size on 4 numbers in roulette with each spin. They believe this is some kind of roulette system and they believe I would have had an advantage because of this which is absurd. Roulette always has a house edge of 2.7% regardless of the bet size.

Again, I have only played with my own money, I have not used any bonus money! Furthermore less than half of my winnings came from playing roulette, the rest of the winnings came from playing slots and yet they are confiscating all of my winnings and not only the winnings from playing roulette. They have not even refunded my deposit.

Hello mathias86,

We have notified the casino about your complaint. Could you please send me your casino username in PM inbox.

Can you plz explain us what means : "you played on every spins 4 numbers (straight/split/corner square)" ?

I bet on 4 numbers and by doing so I used the straight, split and corner bets of these 4 numbers.

Hello mathias86,

As explained by email, what you used is a mathematical technique :

You played everytime the same numbers and you added 100 euros every spins to be on a beneficiary system.

Indeed, by adding 100 euros, you make sure when 1 of your 4 numbers will come out your winnings will cover more than you losses.

By playing 4 numbers everythime you have 1/9 chance of winnings and so, after  9 spins, you are almost sure that one of your number will come out and you will make profits.

You are right when you say that the house edge is 2.7% regardless the bet of size but with mathematical technique you can improve your chance to make profits and you used one.

To explain in another way, what you used is like the normal martingale (play a color and always double the bets) but instead of double your bet amount every 9 spins to be sure to make profit you gradually increase your bet amount (every spin). The result is the same : you make sure when one of your 4 numbers will come you will make profits.

There is no "mathematical technique" for roulette that ensures long-term profit for a player. Regardless how I bet and how much I bet the casino has always an edge. Even if I had used the martingale strategy there would be no advantage for me. Besides, following your logic every bet size increase could be interpreted as martingale. So every player who increases the bet sizes while playing in your casino might get his winnings confiscated?

And what about my slot winnings? I won over 7000 Euro in slots before I have switched to roulette, why are you also confiscating my slot winnings?

Was wondering what happened in this issue.

I have not yet received my winnings. Sydney informed me that the LCB team is currently working with Magical Spin on this issue.

You know I used to play roulette almost exclusively and you can win a lot at it. But you can also lose even more even faster...it is an indisputable fact that the house has an advantage in roulette. No matter what system is employed by the player...this situation sounds simply unjust to me...

i would not patronize such a casino

As far as the martingale system or any system in roulette for that matter the probabilities of winning and losing are general, but the houses advantage is a built in constant. In other words a lot of variation can occur over any given series of bets that can favor either the player or the casino. One can bet according to the system and the house can over any given series of limited bets (I have had this happen to me and unfortunately it was quite painful) defy the odds and win and win and win. Red can come out 20 times in a row to the advantage of the house or the player, but the design of the game over the majority of wagers over a very long term always under every circumstance or system favors the casino. 

In this way the casino makes more money the more bets it can get from players. So increasing the volume of one's business as a casino operator is the smart way to do business. And one does this by creating a good reputation through paying the lucky players who win.

But this does not appear to be the modus operandi of the casino in this case.

No system in roulette can guarantee the player will win...the only system that guarantees a profit is to be the casino, to own the game as the provider of the venue...as the game gives the owner a constant built in advantage...their profits can vary but they are guaranteed a profit...individual players cannot employ any mathematical system that will guarantee profits at roulette...if this was true the casino's of the world would not offer the game....it is a ridiculous argument that this casino puts forth above...

This complaint is a complete mess. The casino has some pretty predatory Terms and Conditions especially pertianing to betting systems and they way players are "suppose to bet'.

These guys are clueless about why any systems do not favor the player. We sent them the best possible source about why the systems do not work but they seem not to care https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/

So casino cannot and should not use this predatory rule to deny the winnings.

However for the record they do have a rule about maximum allowed bets, and I quote:

According to these terms they have the right to deny the winnings. These terms are still super predatory and this is why we will be issuing warning about this brand.

Sadly there is nothing else we can do as it was pointed out to us they have no intention to change these rules and they think they are well within their rights to deny the winnings.

Judging by these predatory TCs they think they can act this way, but just coz u add something to your T&Cs doesnt make it right or legitimate. Again this is why it is crucial player carefuly read T&Cs and dont play at casinos that have their terms designed in such way.

But the T&C say "game session" and not "play session"! Nowhere in the T&C it is defined what "game session" means, but from my understanding it means the time between starting and exiting a single game. In this case only the winnings from my roulette session can be voided and not the winnings from other game sessions I had, because except in roulette I never bet more than 10 times my deposit. It is still unfair, because I'm sure if I had lost my entire balance while playing roulette they would have not cancelled the roulette session and restored my balance that I had before playing roulette.

In my opinion if they would have meant the time between making a deposit and requesting a withdrawal then they should have used the word "play session" because that would unambiguously refer to the entire playing session.

They should at least pay the balance I had before playing roulette which was about 7000€. I think it is still unfair to not pay my roulette winnings but they should at least pay my other winnings.

Yes you make a fair point. And this is why I said their rules are not just predatory but ambiguous and can be interpreted the way they see fit... The warning was placed and we will also do a rogue report soon.

We did email them one last time to let them know about the warning, lets see if that gets them to do the right thing...

Yes, I understand that there is not much more you can do.

I want to thank the whole LCB team for their efforts!

However I don't want to give up. I will use other mediation sites until a fair resolution has been found. In a few days I will post a complaint at AskGamblers.

We are marking this complaint as unresolved. We will keep you and the forum updated if any new developments.

Magical Spin Casino has just changed their Terms and Conditions and now on AskGamblers they claim that the term "game session" was already defined! But at the time I have played the term "game session" was not defined!

Here is an older version of their Terms and Conditions: https://termsweb.wordpress.com/2017/08/23/magical-spin-general-terms/
It contains this paragraph :
"The user is aware that User can lose money by making a bet during a session. The term “session” means all the activity (bets and winnings) from a deposit until both bonus and/or real balances are under € 1 and without any withdrawal request winnings derived from this deposit."

These are their current Terms and Conditions: https://www.magicalspin.com/#/?help=general-terms-and-conditions&lang=eng
They have changed that paragraph into that:
"The user is aware that User can lose money by making a bet during a game session. The term "game session" means all the activity (bets and winnings) from a deposit until both bonus and/or real balances are under € 1 and without any withdrawal request winnings derived from this deposit."

No system assure winnings, the fact that for this once it worked it doesn't mean that any rules were broked. The is no excuse for not popaying this gambler. A lot of people reads this forum, you are not having good advertising from this case. 

Let´s point it out: We´re now in the year 2018 and this Casino will tell the world they aren´t able to reject a bet(-"strategy"), but having those T&C and are fast as hell (to decline) when it´s comes to a withdrawal? Sorry, but if one of the affected had used a SW-bug or 3d-party-tools to get an unfair advantage i could understand this, but to refer to the T&Cs and unable or not willing to config the Software is imo some kind of (backdoor-)scamming...

UPDATE 18/05/2018 :

we were just recently notified that this casino has updated and removed some of the predatory T&Cs.We are currently verifying this and will update the community after the weekend.

We will aslo be sending them this and any other outstanding complaints to be resoloved.

We also invite our membership to inspect their terms as well and report us anything out of order.

Lets see what happens next and if indeed they changed for the better.

Cheers
Zuga

UPDATE 4th June 2018

The casino advised us that all deposits were refunded to the player. We've tried to contact the complainant to confirm this, but he is not available.

Thererfore, this complaint is considered to be closed.

I'm sorry for my late reply. The reason for my late reply is that I use a separate email account for all gambling related stuff, because I don't want my primary email account be spammed with all these promotional emails I get from casinos. Since I decided to take a break from gambling I haven't checked out my emails from my gambling email account for a couple of months now.

I have not received my deposit back and it would be actually impossible to refund my deposit back to my original deposit method. I used a virtual credit card from Cryptopay to deposit at Magical Spin Casino, but on 5th January 2018 Cryptopay has ceased all virtual credit cards from all customers due to a decision by VISA. So if they want to refund my deposit of 50€ they would need to do it by another method like Neteller. I just contacted Magical Spin Casino by email and gave them my Neteller details.

Hello mathias86,

Thanks for getting back to us. Please let us know when you receive your deposit.

Unfortunately I have not received my deposit back and I have not received an answer yet.

Hello mathias86,

Sorry to hear that. We'll contact them again to find out what's going on with your payment.

The player mathias86 has confirmed that Magical Spin Casino returned his deposit on 27th October 2017, but he overlooked that transaction. Therefore, this complaint is considered to be closed.