RESOLVED: Guts.com Ignoring Loss-Limit / Loss Limit didnt Worked

Hello, ive been Playing on Guts.com and had a awesome Winning Streak which ended up in 1250Eur Winnings, which i set to Withdrawal. After i started the Withrdawal Process, i setted up a Loss Limit of 51Eur for a Week, since i dont want to let myself Loose my Winnings, eg. Reverse the Withdrawal, well the Loss Limit did worked well, i couldnt Play any Game on the Website without getting the "Loss Limit Exceed" Popup.

Alright, so i usualy set Loss Limits, to dont Reverse my Withdrawal, to keep the Winnings Payd-out instead of 

having a weak moment which costs my entire Winnings.

Well Unfortunately i was still Able to Exceed the Loss Limit trough the Websites Poker Client -> Including Microgaming Slots , which i COULDNT Play on the Websites Casino Section itself, but trough the Web-Based  Poker-Client, which is Technical Issue on the Casinos Responsability, what i mean is : 

I wanna have Refund of all the Bets , eg. the Money Amount that Exceeds the Loss Limit of 51Eur (>>1250Eur)

since the Responsible Gaming Function of the Website malfunction and still let me Exceed my Setuped Limit after Withdrawal Queue. 

Read here the Chatlog :

*****************************

(15:57:06): Loss Limit Issue -> Need to talk to a Support Manager please.
System (15:57:06): You’re with Guts, how can we help?

Stefan (15:57:33): Hello Rico, I can see what I can do for you there.

Stefan (15:57:59): may I kindly ask you to confirm your full name, email address, date of birth, please before I can see if I can get.

Stefan (15:58:11): get one~

Me (15:58:29): Me

Stefan (15:59:16): Thank you Rico. Can you please give me a moment while I'm trying to get hold of one?

Me (15:59:31): Thanks

Stefan (16:00:33): I can see that you currently have a net loss limit of 51 euro's per week set on your account. Would you like this to be changed?

Me (16:01:58): no no, i have to complain, since the Limit Didnt worked as it should. Thats why i need to talk to a Support Manager since its a special case.

Stefan (16:02:58): Unfortunately, you're not able to speak to a support manager as the support handles all the complaints. As it did not work, I can have a look for you to see exactly what is issue was as to why it did not work.

Me (16:04:18): Do you see when i have setuped the Limit? I mean exactly Date and Time..?

Stefan (16:04:54): Yes, I can see the exact time and date you set the limit, which was on the 2018-09-14 19:19:00 UTC

Stefan (16:05:39): It was reset on the 17th of september as it is a weekly limit.

Me (16:06:09): Alright fine, do you agree with me, that after setting this Limit , it would be impossible to Lose more then 51Eur for the Period of a Week right?

Stefan (16:09:06): Basically it's your deposited money and not your winnings as you have won on us. Therefore you have not lost. As you still have a winning session. You can not lose more than what you deposit, if you have a net loss limit of 51 EUR that is how much you can maximum lose.

Stefan (16:10:03): However, you currently have a winning session a quite big one.

Me (16:14:05): Yeah, i put the Winnings on Withdrawal Queue and setted up the Limit, which indeed worked, BUT there was Still a Possibility to still Gamble the Whole amount, with Slots , and this is a Issue that is Violating  the Responsible Gaming  Part of the Casino itself as Operator

Stefan (16:15:46): Yes, that is correct you could still gamble the entire amount as you have won around 1200 euros, you are on the plus side. Which means that you have a winning session as you are not using your deposited money, you are using your winnings. Which is as to why you can gamble up to 1251 instead of only 51.00 euro per week down to.

Me (16:18:52): Which is not Stated in any Terms of the AGB, and as i said before, prior setting the Limit i put the winnings to withdrawal queue, and as i said before, its an Software Issue, and should not be possible to happen.

Stefan (16:19:33): I'm gonna have a look at this as I have escalated this to see exactly what is going on, can you please hold on for me?

Me (16:20:24): yes ofocourse.

Stefan (16:20:39): Thank you for that. :)

Stefan (16:21:57): We are gonna double check everything. We are gonna get back to you over email as we need to review this.

Stefan (16:22:56): As I have not received an answer or they have not been able to see my message. As soon as we receive an answer regarding this, we will get back to you as soon as possible.

Me (16:23:30): Alright. Thanks

Stefan (16:24:04): No, problem. Sorry I could not give you an answer straight away as it has to be escalated. However you will receive an answer as soon as possible.

Stefan (16:26:29): Are you still here Rico?

Me (16:26:37): yes

Stefan (16:27:39): You should receive an email today. As I have escalated this. Therefore, right now there's nothing I can do except wait.

Stefan (16:30:20): Hold on, I managed to get a response

Me (16:30:37): ok

Stefan (16:32:30): Ok, so it is that you have lost 11 euro in gross, which is not close to those 51 euro. Therefore you can still lose 40 euro as it counts as the deposit money not winnings.

Stefan (16:33:47): As it is what you have deposited you can lose (that counts to the net loss limit).

Me (16:36:30): I understand, but still let me lose the Whole Winnings 0f 1250Eur , trough the Poker Webclients Built in Microgaming Casino, which should NOT be Possible, but it is. And its the Casino`s Responsibility to dont let the Limits exceeded, however.

Stefan (16:38:37): Those 1200 Euros that you lost are gross losses and not net losses. So far you have lost 11 euros in net losses, since that is from your deposit.

Me (16:43:12): This is nowhere stated in the Terms&Conditions. BTW: For what is the Deposit Limit Function  ? I repeat, the Loss Limit worked very well, i couldnt play any Casino Game at all, without getting the Notification that i reached my Loss Limit. In Fact, there`s  Practically no similiaritys which you describe how that loss limit should work. BUT i was Able to Play the Money THROUGH the Poker-Client`s Built-in Slotmachines, which Violates the Loss Limit, and is a Violation of your Responsible Gambling Regulation.

Stefan (16:45:30): Oh ok, then I understand what the issue is. I'm gonna send this further as this is gonna have to be escalated.

Stefan (16:46:32): Then you will be  receiving an email as it could be tomorrow that you receive an answer. Due to the escalation that is needed.

Stefan (16:51:55): As I am not receiving an answer I'm gonna close the chat, and you will receive an update over email as soon as we have an update.

Please helpme getting back my Winnings, since its not my Fault, its a Software Issue 

Hi lumbijumbi,

Thanks for sharing your story with us. 

We are going to notify the casino rep about this. Could you please private message me your casino username? 

Another LCB member had the same issue with loss limitation, the way I see it, if the limit only apply to deposited money then they are correct and there's nothing else you can do about it. Withdrawal reversal is the worst act a player could do and this is the main reason why I don't play at casinos with pending time on withdrawals. I hope LCB could help you with this. Good luck.

@ lumbijumbi - thanks for sending the username. The casino has been notified. Keep you posted. 

In the Meanwhile they just Blocked my Account, without notice.

When i try to login it says :

"Login not allowed because acount is blocked for various Reasons by operator" (i.e Fraud,Chargebacks,ect) or self-excluded."

WTF? 

@MelissaN -> Should i escalate a Complain to the Regulatory Comission? (MGA?)

Who`s Responsible for the "Responsible Gambling" Regulation?

Hi lumbijumbi,

We keep on trying to get through to the casino rep. We still got nothing. Please wait a few more days just to see if they want to assist in this matter. 

Damn it , again 7 Days ago, and still no damn Answer nor any kind of Clue. 

@ MelissaN -> Whats do you suggest? Whats the most efficient Way to Resolve this Complaint?

Me
04:53
name:xx
email: xx
Topic: 4. Account
Why you have Closed my Account without notification?
System
04:53
You’re with Guts, how can we help?
Veli
04:53
Hello Rico! Lets solve this immediately!
04:54
For security reasons, I need you to confirm your home address, phone number and date of birth.
I am sorry to hear this.
xx
04:54
xxx
Veli
04:57
Thank you. Sorry for taking this time.
R
04:58
Alright
Veli
05:00
Your account is in a normal security control. We will let you know when your investigation has finished. I apologize for the inconvenience caused.
Me
05:01
What timeframe can i expect ? since its 2 weeks ago
Veli
05:04
It is a technical difficulty that is being fixed. I am sorry, but there is no time frame at this moment. We will let you know once it is checked.
05:06
Remember, we are here around the clock for your assistance! Is there anything else I can help you with? If not, Thank you for coming to 'Live Chat'. Feel free to rate me and leave a comment as you close the chat. That is highly appreciated! Thank you!

Thanks for letting us know. We still haven't heard from them. Not sure if they want to assist us solve this issue since they are not responding. We'll try to reach them again and let you know. 

In the Meanwhile ive got an very unsatisfied Answer :

Hi Rxxx,

I hope all is well. 

I'm contacting you regarding your your query from September 15th regarding your casino net loss limit. 

Please be advised that your casino net loss limit only applies to games played in the casino section of the website and you were therefore able to play in the poker client, if you wish to have a net loss limit on poker then that is something you need to apply in the poker client.

Can you please confirm how you feel in regards to your gaming, do you feel in full control? I'm asking as you decided to play for your funds even though you believed it exceeded your limit. We offer a self-exclusion option on site for players who feel they're gambling has become a problem, a self-exclusion blocks you from Guts and our sister sites for a specified duration, is this something you would like to use?

Best regards

Casper

Player Safety Team Leader

Guts Customer Support

And here` s my Answer :

Hi Casper,

I cannot believe to get such a Redickeless Answer after such a long "investigation" Time, since its YOUR FAULT , that let me Exceed a Limit , which was Setted Correctly,
but your Implementation in Website does not Work as it should.

1.Please be advised that your casino net loss limit only applies to games played in the casino section of the website and you were therefore able to play in the poker client

Dont Tell me, the Slots which i could acess trough the Poker-Client aren`t the Same/Different then the Microgaming Slots i couldn`t Acess trought the Casino-Section,
if you review the Log-Files we knew, THEY ARE IDENTICALLY , only the Way to Acess them, was possible to me, because of the Software-Fault it has inside, and i would Accept without any Reason, if i`ve losed my Winning by Playing Poker over the Poker-Client,but its not!

Can you please confirm how you feel in regards to your gaming, do you feel in full control?

I feel Scamed, Regarding that your Software-Bug did Cost my Winnings, which should NEVER EVER Happen, According to the Responsible Gambling Part, youre offering Limiting-Tools which are definately not work corectly.
Because i knew, there`s maybe a little Moment of my Personal Issue, to Reverse Withdrawal and Gamble more, my Methodology was always the same, and works Great for me, its easy and simple: Deposit -> WinCertainAmount -> PutTheAmountidLiketoWithdrawToWithdraw -> with the Restamount i leave on the Balance -> Seting the Loss Limit for the Timeframe i expect for the Withdrawal Suceeds -> Thats the Effectivest way, and works Fine for me!

I dont need any Self-Exclusion or whatever, in my Opinion its your Responsibility, that your Limitation/ResponsibleGambling Tools Provided are WORKING, which in my Case, FAILED.

And Because its your Responsibility as Provider with License, to Ensure the SaferGambling Regulations and be fully Responsible, when those Arent working.
(EG: Ive made the Decision to Safe my Winnings, with the Loss Limit Function and it seemed to Work, (and to Exclude the Poker Webclient from the Casino Section and the Limit-Function is wheter stated anywhere in your Terms & Conditions, nor make you Irespondible, for what happend!)

I would sugest the Same Procedure as it would be Fair, and Correct, to Reverse any Bettings taken after the Point the Loss Limit Failed to work, otherwise il have to Escalate the Whole Complaint, trough UKGC & MGA / AskGamblers / ADR which i just haven`t done yet, believing Guts.com is
a Serious and Responsible Provider, which Acts Regulation Conform, and i still think (hope) we are find a Solution, which Satisify both Parities.

Thanks in Advance

@lumbijumbi - a quick update. We finally heard from the casino. They are looking into your case and they'll get back to us as soon as they have the relevant info. Keep you posted. 

Hi lumbijumbi,

The casino informed us that you have been refunded and they closed your account. Can you please confirm you got the money? 

@lumbijumbi - since you don't reply to our messages, the casino confirmed you got your refund. We consider this case resolved.