UNRESOLVED: Betswagger Casino Refuse Refund

Hi,

My username is: helpmeime

I have been with the Casino for 18 days, I have deposited £7830.99 in total, £3351.20 of it is initial deposits and the rest was withdrawals I put back in.  Now I felt while I was playing some of the slots RTP seemed a bit suspect as it could go over 30 spins without any wins.  I decided to investigate and found the casino only holds a Curacao License which means they should not have accepted me as a UK Player due to not holding a UKGC License.  Because of this my initial deposits of £3351.20 are deemed void and must be returned as this has been taken illegally.  If they are to take UK Customers they must have this UK License and pay the Tax.  Because they do not they are committing Tax Fraud by accepting players.

I have approached them about this and complained, they refused my refund request, banned my account and said I am in Curacao now.  After they said this I stated my intentions to take this further so I approached some of the Game Providers on there website and they have with immediate effect discontinued the distribution of there content due to allowing UK players to play there slots.  

I would like help trying to get my refund please, I had been fair with them but the rude support team member got on the wrong side of me so I decided to take things further.  I have not broken any of the terms, it does state on there license that 'It is the responsibility of the licensee to be familiar with the local laws and requirements for the territories which they intend to offer their services' yet there terms contradict this by saying its down to the player to make sure gambling is not illegal in our jurisdiction.  Well it is not against the law for a UK player to gamble in our jurisdiction, but it is illegal for an operator to accept UK players without a UK License.  

I know this is a bit of an essay but I have tried to add as much information as possible.

I did say if they refund me I will not take things any further than I already have, and I will stick to this.

Thanks

Sorry my username is: helpmeimme

I missed out an M 

Sorry to hear about the issue you have with this brand. Unfortunately, our hands are tied regarding Betswagger and its sister sites. We got in touch with the casino management about various complaints many times so far and our efforts to get them to cooperate and resolve players' issues failed. We also invited them many times to directly engage and reply to our members here on the forum, they simply ignored our emails. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do to help you. Let's see if their regulatory body will take some actions. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Hi Melissa,

Thanks for the reply, I thought as much as they only seem to have one support advisor.  I'll take down this casino then and report back on my progress.

Thanks again 

HI helpmeimme,

Could you please update us regarding your complaint? Is it resolved? 

Hi,

Still having issues, they believe I have been threatening and have blocked my email address from contacting them.  There only seems to be one support member and they are not passing my complaint further up the chain.  UK Gambling Commission have already confirmed to me via email that they have illegally transacted and are being investigated.  Curacao Egaming don't seem to be much help.  I have contacted the Curacao Ministry of Justice but noone has come back to me on that front.  I will get them shut down eventually

Sorry to hear that. Yes, it's hard when you don't get a feedback. Gambling authorities need much time to get a case resolved but if this is the only option then you have to be patient and wait for their feedback. Please keep us posted. 

I've had the exact same issue with there sister site ph. Casino and I've had the same operator it seems who is very rude. William dormat is the name. Please keep me informed if any progress had been made?

Hi Dazza,

I think he is the only person that works there, my lawyer contacted them and he won't even pass it to management (if there is any) seen as though nobody wants to talk in that company my solicitor has managed to track down the person who runs there payment processor based in cyprus.  I'll let you know how that goes.  In the meantime I would not usually suggest chargebacks especially with any casino who is licensed to operate and transact in the UK but this company clearly does not hold a license.  So just do a chargeback through your bank

I tried but my bank said they couldn't do anything.... They don't like dealing with casinos it seems. Was you successful? 

if you report them to action fraud and a a crime reference number, then go back to your bank give them that and say the company mislead me into transacting with them which in essence is fraud, and the fact they are transacting with UK Customers and not paying tax to the UKGC like other casinos is tax fraud.  So you are within your rights based on that.  The service they provided to you under the consumer rights act was not as described because you was mislead into believing they can lawfully provide it.  

Is this what you did and did it work? Did your bank issue you the funds? And what have they said since? Out of interest did you withdraw any money at all from the casino? 

Ive not approached my bank yet, I'm wanting to do this directly through my solicitor so I can get them fined otherwise they will keep doing it to people.  Yes I had withdrawals too. But I found out they didn't have permission to use push gaming slots, infact push gaming had no idea they were allowing uk customers to use its slots.  If I don't get anywhere with the legal side I will chargeback

Thanks for your feedback guys, but you need to be very careful with chargebacks becasue it can be used against you. It's better try to sort out with the solisitor or their reglatory body first. 

Although I agree Melissa this is a different situation, the casino is forbidden to transact with UK Customers.  They mislead customers thinking they are allowed to transact with them.  They could quite easily not pay you as you are not protected so a chargeback on this occasion is justified

I agree i have done just about everything within my power to get this resolved, they shouldn't simply be allowed to act like this... They have probably mislead hundreds of innocent gamers on there platform. The man in question who seems to answer all there correspondence is so rude and abrupt in his response almost like he is mocking us. Something has to be done

Totally agree, I'll do everything I can on my side.  I gave them many opportunities to resolve this as did my solicitor but they want to try ignore us now.  Although they think they are safe in Curacao from further action they are very mistaken

I'm with you all the way! People shouldn't just sit back and allow these scammers to operate.. They pray on innocent people. I simply fail to understand how a casino has one operator(rude) to communicate on the casinos behalf.. He isn't a manager or anyone with authority. Surely more can be done Here!!? 

There is no other way of getting around him, he's the only one on online chat and the only one who replies to emails.  I've checked all social media and noone from there company exists except for some names on the usoftgaming website but those look blatently fake.  My only lead is there payment processor and my solicitor knows a solicitor in Curacao.  I've tried curacao egaming but they don't seem to even bother replying either, I would think they would take it seriously as this company are making them look bad

What I'm more frustrated with is the fact i had funds in my online wallet and they banned my account after i challenged them over the license. William dormat won't even release my funds back to me and just simply says 'the case is closed'.. Surely they can't keep a players money like that! 

Case closed sounds familiar.  They can't keep your money, withold it or transact with you at all.  Forget about trying to reason with that asshole, it won't get you anywhere.  Try with your bank again with a chargeback, dont mention about UKGC License stuff because it confuses them and they just say speak to the regulator.  What they don't understand is the regulator does not have the power to get your money back whether licensed or not.  Just stick to the consumer rights act and the fact you were misleaded into paying for a service which is fraud.

I had an email today from Curaçao egamming, they have copied the representative into the conversation.. Not sure how this is gonna play out. 

Yeh I would not hold my breath with them.  I did same thing over a month ago, betswagger apparently replied to them and I've heard nothing at all and not getting any updates.  

I was told they have 7 days to respond.. I'm sure the operator in question will be same William dornat. Surely the governing body should overrule the casino? 

Yes they may do but it does not mean curacao egaming will get back to you in 7 days.  I've waited over a month for any sort of update from egaming, I've even called them, they don't seem to care at all

I had the very same issue a few months back with a different casino. They were advertised on. Legitimate website as taking UK players. I then found out they were also based in Curaçao. I received full refund back after weeks fighting it. I will get my money back trust me... 

So Curacao egaming helped you get a refund before? Its first time I'm using them and I must say there lack of response does not fill me with confidence

No last time i dealt directly with the casino and i had to sign a settlement agreement.. They paid in full eventually. They were so shady. Advertised as allowing UK players and i was even told on chat they did. But as with pH casino the gameplay just seemed very suspicious... Together we can fight William dormat and his scamming casino

From looking at other peoples experience of the regulator over there they won't do anything.  I've got alot of evidence on UsoftGaming.  There terms are not solid enough, it says its the customers responsibility to establish whether they are allowed to play on there site or not.  But as part of there License Agreement it says its the Casinos responsibility to make sure they are allowed to offer there services in Jurisdictions.  I also have evidence of them advertising to the UK through a friend on twitter 

If i give you my email could you send me any evidence etc that you have.. I will build up a case. I will get our money back my friend. 

Yeh no worries, can you PM me on here or do you have to send it on this post?

[email protected]. 

Send me all the info you have including your case. Many thanks

Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep us posted. We look forward to hearing that your problems have been sorted. Fingers crossed. 

Just awaiting an email from ny friend on here... I will get us our money back. The casinos that are not on here or ask gamblers think there safe but there wrong. I was told i would 100% not get a refund on my last case but i got it back in full within 2weeks.

I will email you at some point this afternoon.  I'll speak to my solicitor first because there may be certain things I can't disclose to you, but I'll do my best to give you what I can.  

Of course. I can also show you my successful refunds in the past from these crooks.. They are scum and need to be brought to justice. 

I received a response from the usual prick william dornat.. He responded tobthe complaint i made to there governing body. Thr man has accused me and many others as scammers haha! You couldn't make this shite up! 

Scammers? Lol they are breaching there 'excluded terrotories' part of there curacao license.  They are also illegally transacting with UK Customers and committing tax fraud......yes of course we are scammers.  I'll get stuff emailed over to you asap bud just got few things to do

Ok thanks . This is the response i got. He posted this to myself and Curaçao.. 

He has threatened to charge back the amounts, has contacted our gaming supplier and has breached the terms and conditions.
We are a licensed casino, we do not offer refunds nor will we. And we will fight any chargebacks this player tries to make.
This is a racket/scam they do, they try us out and if they win they withdraw and if they lose they pull this stunt.
As you can see from his email on Wednesday, his first line says he has done this with other casinos. Meaning when he signed up with us he knew we were licensed in Curacao and continued on.
We do not advertise in the UK, player came and found us, agreed to our terms and conditions, deposited funds, lost and we have now blocked him.
Case is closed on our side.

Let me add i never once said i did this to other casinos. I said i have seen cases this has happened to others including your casino and other Curaçao casinos. I also have withdrawn from this website. I was also being charged shit loads of foreign transaction fees from my bank... They are scum and to have the audacity of calling me a scammer

Broke there terms? Haha there terms are completely void for starters as they can't enforce them when they don't have a license for UK Customers.  Plus there gaming suppliers agreed that they didn't have permission to use there games.  They do advertise to the UK I have proof that will be included in what I send you.  

Great that will be very helpful... The fact of the matter is he knows deep down there in the wrong. His a desperate man.. Where are the managers and other staff? Surely one man can not be overseeing all 3 casinos? 

I agree it can't be a one man band, but the worst of all is I bet there Payment Processor Pulsion Processing Ltd are not aware that because of this casino they are illegally transacting with customers. It leaves them in the shit too. But my solicitor has managed to track down the director for that company and awaiting his reply. William accused me of threatening the casino, I didn't I said what I found out, I gave him options and said if this is not done I will have no alternative but to contact certain people etc. Thats not threatening at all, thats just stating what I will do, I didnt have to tell him but I wanted him to know how serious I am. I don't even think his name is real in all honesty

Is there no management? Because he seems to be on live chat and emails also lol. Either he works 24 hours a day or something here is very shifty. I love the aay he says case closed. Who is he to tell me the case is closed when according to his status is just a support assistant. I did contact therr so called manager once. Felicia johnson i recall.. 

Just emailed you.  I never got to speak to any 'manager' haha.  Yeh I think he just does everything and there is no management

Hello, do you have any update on this case? I am in the same situation as well. I sent an email and William Dornat rudely replied and 'case closed'. I am considering to chargeback with my mastercard. Any advice?

Unfortunately you won't get any help from the company who Licensed them.  Absolute waste of time, I don't even think they investigate properly.  Yeh I would suggest a chargeback but get evidence first to prove they are in the wrong.  

This is what I wrote in the email:

( The UKGC explicitly states "You must have a licence to offer gambling facilities to players from the UK"). You are not on the public register and are therefore not allowed to take UK player's bets https://secure.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PublicRegister/Search. Under the Gambling Act 2005 ( https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/section/89) the UKGC is the authority on this matter.

I requested a return on my deposits, and he basically told me to sod off. What further evidence will I need to prove my case? 

Dont approach your bank and request a chargeback on regulatory evidence, it will confuse them and they will tell you to speak with the regulator.  The company misrepresented themselves which in essence is fraud and misrepresentation is something you can raise a chargeback under

Okay, and what evidence should I use if they ask me for it? e.g. how they misrepresented me. Do I include the regulatory evidence then? Or do I provide information such as their lack of UKGC, etc