Win A Day Casino, Slotland, CryptoSlots Casino, CryptoWins Casino Support and Complaints Thread

How the problem was resolved ?? The last week my withdrawal also was declined and my wiinings are voided because of no deposit bonus in a row and no solution.

I ask 2 very nice Admins from LCB to help me out THANK YOU BLUE DAY & MelissanN ! And Thank you WINADAY Casino Reps !!!

After that i verified my Account . And now i got the Money. 6 H later.

@aymenpronet this was not a normal 2in a row No Deposit bonus Action it was very difficult Situation...

i did deposit $35 at miami club and yes with a bonus but i couldent find anything on the site that said i could not get a $15 chip from here if i took a bonus for the $3 lcb chip,i fact ive done it before and they just gave me the $15 i lost promptly,last time i deposit at miami club quite a few times before i got sick,winaday has never given me a problem ever about getting a bonus even when ive taken bonuses,and the killer is ive cashed in many,many times at winaday but never once at miami club-oh well,goodbye miami club winaday and a few other casino's are now the only casino i will deposit with. thank you for the info blueday,very nice of you,george heissner (yobaboy)  p.s. blueday said nothing bad about miamiclub casino,just told me the way they have changed their cheap rules,from my point of few never expect a free chip at miami club even a fin ($5) or even a free spin. always with winaday!    yobaboy

AND YES,im following bonus rules=im just explaining why i consider some casino's MUCH  better than other's,good luck and god bless all! yobaboy

Winaday has emailed me COUNTLESS bonuses and such but thing is :(? I CANNOT MAKE A DEPOSIT! UGH! I have tried over 6 different cards! They do not help you with them either it's a pain! :(

Any help?

they have the same bronze at winaday and i pasted it up here,but i was Bronze VIP Level but they told me they were going to work on it so as to disquilify me from it with no reason. i am extremly dissapointed as i have been with them for over a decade and they straight out told me they were going to screw me over,in fact they will probably take this down again with absolutley no  reason,if it happens to you please write to me and tell me if they give you a reason. if you read this they give me absolutlly no reason. thank you,george heissner account-yobaboy
The entry VIP Level brings great benefits! In order to be considered as a Bronze VIP, besides other criteria, you need to have deposited at least $3,000 during the lifetime of your account. Once you qualify, our VIP manager will invite you to join our VIP club. If you would like to know how close are you to becoming a Bronze VIP player, contact us at [email protected].
Bronze VIP Benefits
A special $50 Welcome Bonus to celebrate your new VIP status!
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VIP Service! Any inquiries sent from a VIP player to [email protected] will receive the highest response priority!
SLOTLAND reserves the right to grant, change or remove VIP account status upon its own discretion. There are many criteria we consider when inviting players to our VIP club. Slotland reserves the right to amend the VIP levels and benefits without prior notice. The VIP bonus structure as described here is valid from April 2014.

Hi yobaboy,

The casino will be notified. Hope will have the explanation soon. 

Hi yobaboy,

Thanks for your continuous interest in our VIP program. First off we really appreciate your choice of our brands as placed to play, yet I suppose I won't be telling you anything new, presuming you've heard of of the below a number of times already. So just to reiterate --

At Slotland, after being with us already for more than 8 years, sadly you don't meet the basic publicly shared rule of having deposited at least $3,000 during the lifetime of your account.

At Winaday Casino, you may have met some of the criteria, but sadly not all of them, whereas obviously some of these cannot be publicly disclosed.

No worries though, as all accounts considered for VIP status are evaluated on monthly basis, and the moment you meet all the criteria @WAD, you'll be the first to know you're in.

Last but not least -- if you allow me a short personal remark: Considering the fact that we're literally spoiling you with other bonuses (e.g. 14 bonuses compared to 4 deposits, and granting you almost 3x more what you have deposited solely over the past 30 days), I really don't see any reason for you to be unhappy about missing out.

Coz even if you can't see it with your own eyes, you're indeed getting a royal treatment that many other players can only dream of. And yes, it actually can be considered as a part of our gratitude for your military service and all the sacrifice you made. 

Thanks again for playing at Slotland and Winaday.

Cheers Jack

Thank you winaday and slotland,I really do appreciate the bonuses,i will say this-if they still had the make your own  p2p make your own bet websites that even depositing regularly while not taking any bonus in the future ,i would put up a wager of 1000-1 odds that a year from now that i will get that congratulatory letter. It's not that big a deal in the scheme of life but we all have instincts of common sense that tells us something is so and will remain so no matter what you do or however hard you bang your head on the wall,so i will refrain from ever asking for any status whatsoever at your casinos. I appreciate your letter of interest and agree in total with your assessment.I also give slotland and winaday a near 100% in the honesty department and would recommend them to all including my closest of family members and Friends, thank you again,yobaboy

Warm thanks for your amazing feedback, despite not really being able to you help further in that aspect, yobaboy.

Wishing you luck at the games, cheers!

To bad this had to happen,right now ive ate $150.00 foor a $120.00 check that said im a terrorist for dealing with an online casino,annndd another check that i won for after that is also being held in my mothers count for almost 30 days now.-its not slotlands fault or winadays but they are using a processesor that are out of country,my last 2 checks have not been able to get cashed,the first one was flat out denied to the supermarket that cashed it for me and they are charging me $50 on top of the $120 they gave me when their bank told them to answer security questions that were not good enoughfor them,so they took my vet check hostage till i pay which means ive recieved an eviction notice from my place of residence since the va check they took hostage pays for my rent,my electricity (off in 3 more days) and my phone and internet connection, (both to be terminated anytime) the checks they sent are international not u.s. and they consider it payments from terrorists until proven otherwise. being a parapallegiic on top of this makes it much worse,no where to go,no reletives left alive. so be carefull with those international checks their proccesor sends they may label you a terrorists. i sent my dilimia to slotland and winaday and they say aw to baaad,but dont worry weve a nice place to sleep so dont worry about yourself. god bless the rest of you all,very nice people here but its become shocking how greedy slotland and winaday have become lateley,really really tight about bonus games you can play and the playthroughs. be very carefull and if they do anything to help speed this up i will be shocked. ill let you all know if they do anything at all to speed this up in the mean time but i do not expect anything from them anymore,they are not the same casino as 2 years before and b4 that. god bless you all and win big,from account-yobaboy

Hi yobaboy,

So sorry you had trouble cashing in the checks with your winnings. We could issue a stop payment, and try sending it again. Not sure if this would help --

Though I really wish you moved over to crypto, coz that way you could have money in your hands hassle-free THE VERY SAME DAY, and with exactly $0 costs on your end.

Try figuring your way e.g. around Bitcoin. It's not really a rocket science, and once you set up your wallet, which doesn't take longer than a few minutes, I'm sure you'll be thrilled about the virtually endless possibilities of cryptocurrencies.

In regards to how things do or don't change in time --I can only say it's a matter of perspective as FYI, only since the beginning of this year, you've been able to pull out over 3/4 of monies deposited, and in regards how 'greedy' we seemingly are, or became --with all the bonuses that we spoiled you with since January, we've given you you almost THREE times as much compared to what you deposited.

MANY other players -- regardless whether old or new, large or small -- can only dream of this royal treatment. Too bad you don't see it as royal enough. Which personally makes me wonder at what level you'd become truly satisfied with all the goodies thrown your way. Coz it seems that this aspect only sky's the limit 

Oh well, continuing to do our best, as we've strived for for almost TWO decades!

Cheers Jack

just wanted to say keep up the good work and keep the bonuses coming lol I have been playing here with both winaday and slotland over or about two years and after dealing with some of the other online casino I know that you guys have the best staff (in all departments) to deal with :) you have always try to work with me.

I am very grateful for you guys always treating me in a respectful manner and also for not lieing or being deceitful likesome of the other online gaming casinos tend to due

I have learn alot of other casino tend to due and thank you for all the knowledge that you have given me thur this 2 year journey of mine its has help me to be able to enjoy my online gaming in a better smarter way with less unknowns and more game time to play

I would def recommend you guys to any and all of my friend and family I am looking forward seeing what new and exciting then your casino have to offer as the years go on. i hope you and everyone esle that reads this has a great day and shares there true real life experience as I have done with mine rite here

Congrats on your amazing win, lokieluke 

Wishing you luck (and lots of strength too) making it to the cashout page next time you hit big!

Hi guys,

As Hilary is no longer around, it would be me, Jack Jelinek, being the official casino rep for all brands under the umbrella of Slotland Entertainment: Slotland, Winaday Casino and CryptoSlots.

Just a quick memo for those whom I haven't met yet -- you may know me e.g. from here, here and countles contests that we ever ran on LCB, with hopefully many more to follow.

Don't hesitate to check back in regards to any issue you might have with our brands. I'll do my best to resolve them to your full satisfaction. That is, if it's not Saturday 3 am 

Wishing you luck playing our games!

Cheers Jack

I've got to say I couldn't agree less with  what yobaboy reckons. it sounds like the biggest bs made up Sob Story that I've ever heard. I love how you threw in the ultimate sympathy card of and I quote

"being a parapallegiic on top of this makes it much worse,no where to go,no reletives left alive. so"

and there playthough are the best you will find ever on the WorldWideWeb. same go's with there free bonuses  regularly found in the newsletters. 

you are a sooky la la 

that is all. Thank You. 

they replaced the check months after they realized i did not cash it and never recieved it,i was happy to recieve it 6 months later rather than never and rather than have them mail me the check i decided to keep it in my account,i lost it but not before i had fun with it. anyways id like to thank all of you who backed me on this and for your support,it realy helped. thank you all,excpecially winadays helen who made sure i got myy money which ever way i wanted it payed which was to play some more. (yobaboy)

Guys what can I say. 

Although we do our best to help in all sorts of strange or bizarre cases, we have zero control over the whole process of sending you the funds in the standard, old-fashioned way. So even if we do everything right, the funds can get stuck somewhere, or some John Doe will suddenly want you to pay more than how much you want to cash in. Actually now I know what to say --

★★★ EMBRACE CRYPTO ★★★

You don't have to be biggest friend of Bitcoin, but that way, you'll not only get your funds completely hassle-free the very next day after you request withdrawal, and in just a few dozen minutes after we send it. You'll also end up paying zero in fees for receiving the payment.

Show big fat middle-finger to all the unwelcome overpaid middle-men which you don't need to deal with these days at all.

i just wanted to thank slotland publicly for providing stellar customer service. they are all so helpful, and give lightening fast response to emails.they are just the best. they definetly take the sting out of losing, and they keep me coming back.

made a second account by mistake , my old email was hacked or stolen and now my casino account is band , wtf

Am I missing something or is there no information on reel layouts or RTP on your  provably fair slots?

The only thing your 'provably fair' method seems to be accomplishing is that out of 9 possible outcomes, each has an equal chance of being the final outcome.  But you aren't proving that those 9 outcomes were determined fairly...so, what's the point?

Apologies if I'm just overlooking something, it's very possible :)

Thanks for your feedback, finallyfinally.

We've informed the casino rep about your post he'll reply to you shortly. 

Not sure that I'd make your day any brighter, finallyfinally, as you seem to know your stuff but let me try my best --

Yes, you're correct assuming that we don't officially publish RTP of our games, nor reel layouts (stripes). What some may see as a flaw, we prefer to offset by humbly nodding towards the fact that we've been around for over two decades (with Slotland est. back in 1998. No, that's not a typo!) during which we built an impeccable reputation for being honest and reliable brands that have entertained millions of players world wide. 

What more can a brand offer in terms of reassuing player of its integrity and honoring its mission statement to play by the book?

As per the concept of Provably Fair, you're also correct assuming it's not a final all-encompasing answer, nor tool for making the casino world a 100% better place. It does help though by, in shorty, providing (even if somewhat 'geeky', let me add) way to make 100% sure that game result hasn't been tampered with by either side, by verifying the result of particular spin or poker hand.

You have slightly misunderstood the bit of the outcomes having an equal chance of being a final outcome though. It's the player who's always in charge by selecting the outcome. Just on top of it we have decided to enhance the concept of PF by always making sure at least one possible spin outcome is a winning one.

As I intentionally try not to dive into all those server seed and SHA256 hash-like 'techie' mambo jumbo here, feel free to head for more detailed and technically-oriented review of our take on provably fair over to: https://www.cryptoslots.com/en/provably-fair/

Any chance the above may have at least partially answer your concerns?

I'm aware you guys have been around for forever and have a very solid reputation - that being said, after looking over the explanations for slots, video poker , multi hand video poker and keno.  Your keno appears to be provably fair (I think), but poker and slots are definitely not.  

For video poker, you're proving that a standard 52 card deck is being used, and that the location the player chooses to cut the deck is honored, but there's no transparency in how the order is determined, and the pre-cut order of the cards determines whether or not any high payout is possible.  For a royal flush to be even possible, the deck needs to have 5 face cards of the same suit within 10 cards - and only then will the player have have the chance to pick between 1 and 5 cut locations in order to have the possibility of a royal flush.  You could easily make sure this never happens, therefore the game is not provably fair.

For slots, it's the same issue as video poker, except the player doesn't even know how many symbols (cards) there are on the reels (deck), or what the values of each is.

I'm know you guys have been around forever and have a great reputation, It's shocking to me that you've been able to promote your games as provably fair for so long when they actually aren't.  I assume it's because the concept is relatively new and pretty complex, and a misunderstanding somewhere is what led you to believe that your games actually are provably fair.  

I think you should immediately remove any claim of being provably fair from your games and website.  Until you do your players are being misled, your reputation will be damaged and you'll be setting a bad example for the industry.

If my explanation wasn't clear, go find someone qualified to take a look, I'm confident they will come to the same conclusion as me.  

And again, this is not an accusation of cheating.  There's no evidence that you are.  All I'm saying is that when it comes to provably fair it's black and white, and your games aren't provably fair.

We really appreciate your detailed feedback on our implementation of profably fair mechanism to our games at CryptoSlots but obviously, we don't share a common ground here, finallyfinally 

From how I read your response, you're basically saying that in reality no slot game can ever be 100% provably fair, and the tens or hundreds of sites offering PF games are all making false claims. In my eyes, that is rather strong statement though.

Unlike some super-simplistic and pure random-based game types such as dice where there appears to be just one way to implement PF, and hence doing this in an ideal 'orthodox' fashion you seem to be rooting for, in case of more sophisticated games such as slots with shared jackpots, complex bonus features e.g. hold feature, shifting reels, freezing wilds, and stuff, Provably Fair mechanism can obviously be used to secure 'just' a part of the journey that each game outcome, or in particular, a slot spin makes.

In our eyes it's the most important part though, as it clearly rules out manipulation with the game result. While with the gazillions of spins made by millions of players in all our games across the last two+ decades, you can be quite sure that our payback can easily put under 'industry standard' label, if not standing above, coz if we were to not play fair, it would long get exposed --

Anyway, as I doubt saying the above or anything at all would convince you otherwise., I challenge you to state 3 or more examples of sites offering provably fair games, where the entire process is 100% secured by PF in your eyes for further review and comparison. Again, I don't mean dead-simple silly dice sites, sites offering just a handful of games, or sites that no longer exist (bitzino, anyone?)

Last but not least, as I don't expect you to suddenly accept our vision, nor us adopting yours, let's simply agree to disagree but despite your claims above, our final stance on our implementation of PF is that it still proves that the site can’t interfere with the game results, and is unable to ever change it, while offering a player means to influence the in-game randomization processes, and do this in a verifiable manner.

Disclaimer: Despite having more than one college degree, I am not Phd level statistician. Always found that subject way too boring, which is why I prob ended up working in Marketing  Nonetheless, if you have any *particular* claims or suggestions to improve our game platform, feel free to send it over to marketing (at) cryptoslots (dot) com and we can seriously take the talk to the next level, by having our dev team get involved, possibly also talk bounties and stuff. But irrelated 3rd party forums are not an ideal platform for sharing such knowledge, if you ask me.

I don't think that the fact that slots are more complicated than dice is a valid reason for saying your slots are provably fair when they aren't, and there's also video poker which is almost as simple as dice - but I'll entertain your challenge anyway.

Stake is the biggest site that's also developed their own provably fair slots.  They have 2 so far and are working on more.  (they also have provably fair video poker)  They've recently started offering games from tons of other providers and have been very clear that these 3rd party games are not provably fair like the ones they developed.  Here's their explanation of the 2 they developed:

Scarab Spin (2.14% house edge)
The game event number is calculated by multiplying the float by the possible outcomes in the reel. The first 4 reels have a length of 30 possible outcomes, whilst the last reel has 41. The game event determines the central stop position for each reel. This game consists of 5 game event numbers, until the case of a bonus round, where more are generated.

Blue Samurai (2.74% house edge)
Blue Samurai slots has 3 different types of spins. Regular, bonus and special.

For regular and bonus spins, 18 floats from 0 to 1 are generated from your hash. Unlike Scarab Spin slots, which has fixed reels, Samurai slots has dynamic reels, meaning each symbol is generated from the corresponding float that was assigned to it.

We use weighted random sampling to assign each float to its corresponding tile, in the same order, moving down the reels, from left to right. Each symbol has its own fixed probability / chance of appearing in any one tile, with the outer 2 reels having a different set of probabilities to the inner 3 reels. For a bit more information on how symbols are selected, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitness_proportionate_selection.

Special spins are slightly different. For a start only 12 floats are taken from your hash, as the outer reels are disabled. Between each special spin, any samurai symbols stay in place for the remainder of the game, with the payout being the final count of samurais. This means that if you were to have for example 1 samurai stick in the first spin - we'd technically only need 11 floats for the subsequent spin. For the sake of simplicity in the probably fair model, we just generate 12 floats every time, and if the float that was allocated for a tile has a stuck samurai from a previous spin, then that float is not used at all.

Bitvest and cryptogames each have a provably fair slot.  I can't access cryptogames right now for some reason, but here's bitvests:

(images of reel layout included)

Take 2 hex digits, convert to decimal and divide it by 64, keeping only the remainder. Do this 5 times. Each result determines how many spots from the top the top of the reel will stop. If you reach the end of the reel, loop around and take the first and second items to fill in the remaining spaces.

I believe all SOFTSWISS slots are provably fair as well, but I haven't looked at them too closely and they don't have the best reputation as a company so I wouldn't be surprised if they were misleading as well.

Anyway, yeah.  It's not impossible, and even if it were - that wouldn't make what you're doing ok.

TY for providing some examples, just to reiterate --

Okay, so your personal 'God of Provably Fair' has whopping TWO slots fully fitting in that category out of 350+ slots that they offer? And 'all' this somehow seems to justify having some 700+ references to provably fair on their site (which G shows me when using a search query: provably fair site:stake.com)...

Hmmm. No offense, but that this best answers your own question and clearly shows how difficult it may be trying to bring (even a truly ingenious) theory in reality.

True is, reality can slap one's face really hard, and not just after returning from vacation. Similarly, in theory communism once looked like the best world order ever. Though I wouldn't exactly consider today's China or North Korea as the prime examples of human well-being...

At any rate, not trying to cause any flames, nor waste precious time of both you and me by diving in endless discussions leading nowhere, just trying to make my point here according to which it's better to fully secure an essential part of the process while still offering a solid product, rather than trying to accomplish virtually-impossible, while ending up with a crippled product that in reality only works as cheap trinket on store's facade.

p.s. Maybe you never did so far, but if you are both an avid slot player and statistics fan, I suggest you to find a way to play a slot game based purely on random.

Secret revealed: I did when we tested this solution. Apart from everything else, it's simply dead boring, which also makes one of the reasons why slot makers use game stripes or other methods to pre-destine the slot game outcomes making it impossible to make slots 100% PF...

Just to be clear, the issue isn't the fact that Slotland games aren't provably fair, which one might assume from the most recent response.

The issue is that Slotland is claiming that their games are provably fair, and they're not.

It appears this was not an honest mistake and they intend to continue misleading their current and future players - it makes no sense considering their reputation and how little it would effect traffic to just be honest that the games are not provably fair, just like 99.9% of the other slots in the world.  Hopefully I'm wrong.

I've adjusted my rating and hopefully LCB will step in and do something to inform players of the situation when signing up.

I bet 99% of online gamblers just think that the casino sites are spelling the word probably incorrect. As for the 1% that actually know its not a spelling error, they will not have a clue what the hell it means should you ask them to define it.

All this topic is doing is delaying my cashback.

Now I definitely know that I'm wasting time of everyone who's reading this by noting the below but what can be done --

Let me repeat yet again that we appreciate sharing your stance on the implementation of Provably Fair within our games at CryptoSlots but due to reasons laid out in about half dozen of my previous posts, we simply don't consider your stance being the only 'universal truth' out there.

Unlike Pythagorean theorem, towards which you can hardly take more than just one particular stance, this is not the case which would allow you to proclaim solely your vision to be correct, while anyone else is doing it wrong, I'm afraid.

Moreover, as I tried explaining above --and as you have virtually admitted yourself by supplying examples, that didn't exactly win me over to your side, let me add -- such pristine view of PF as yours may appear brilliant in theory but in reality it severely lacks behind. And not just in quantity of games that closely follow that principle.

In closure, while we're sorry to loose a play who once seemed to firmly believe in the result of our work (judging on your previous rating). Of course, no one will be forcing you to play with us any longer, nor to continue praising our brands if you lost faith in them though. At the same point it doesn't give you right to force everyone else to stick to your way of viewing the world, especially when from a different perspective it may seem just a way too orthodox...

Wishing you luck regardless the games of your choice, personally just hoping there are more than two --

p.s. Since you seem to be a most diehard advocate of purist approach to PF, may I humbly ask if (whether at all) you you plan bashing all other brands that claim to be offering so-called provably fair games while in your eyes they actually don't? 

Btw. LCB itself lists about 30 of them here, virtually none of which follow your strict vision ever so closely.

You can't have 'sort of provably fair' or 'almost probably fair'.  It's either provably fair, or it's not.  It's simple.

Turns out you were called out almost 6 months ago on bitcointalk for the video poker and responded differently than now.

I'm not allowed to post links to other forums, but here's what 'Cyrptoslots Casino' responded on April 3:

"You are right, that the video poker provably fair mechanism could be exploited by an unfair operator and we are already planning on making changes that will prevent that (client seed will be used during the deck shuffling)."

No posts since.  Here we are, middle of September.

Okay, for one last time no, it's NOT that simple.

Although being it an article stub, we closely follow the way the PF is laid out e.g. on Wikipedia, that btw. does NOT say a word on how symbols combinations are being generated and how PF mechanism does or doesn't affect it. Does this make Wikipedia an unreliable source just coz it doesn't dive a few levels deeper in techie details?

Or to the contrary, does this make a certain fellow advocate of equally purist approach to PF (along with their sooo funny explanation @YT) a winner, after producing solely 1 (in words: ONE) funny looking slot machine since opening up back in, ahem 2014...? 

Let alone being it a slot machine that I personally wouldn't bother touching even if if I was paid for to play it, regardless of the level of PF it employs...

Well, I'm hoping we can get something straight: I'm not Robert and this forum isn't bitcointalk, meaning I wasn't one who wrote that post. 

Second, I honestly doubt that neither you, nor handful of some pathetic btctalk trolls, ever played video poker at CryptoSlots. Coz that way you'd only make a fool of yourself trying to falsely accuse us from cheating once witnessing the payback of the games on your own eyes.

Third, even if there was purely a theoretical flaw in the implementation of this particular PF concept's bit in our poker games -- while my tech/dev knowledge honestly doesn't allow me to confirm or deny such thesis -- let me assure you that unlike many come-n-go brands we've been in the game way too long to take advantage of any such theoretical flaw for quick profit, which would long get exposed...

At any rate, since you also select to only answer some concerns of mine, I deliberately choose to grant you the courtesy of having the last word to this conversation that I no longer consider beneficial to contribute to --

Cheers!

p.s. Irregardless, you completely fail to address my concern why you're so blatantly enraged by one particular of our brands, and happily ignore the majority of other supposely PF-friendly brands proven guilty of the same 'mishap' in your eyes. I suggest you to show off your strength and moral integrity by raising the same discussion with other 29 brands featured here @lcb. But I guess it would be too foolish expecting you to do so, right? Feel free to prove me wrong at least with this one --

(I'm ignoring the personal attacks but want to address your point)

I've already said, explicitly, that I'm not accusing you of cheating and I don't see any evidence that you are.  All I'm saying is that allowing the player to pick from a few possible outcomes that were generated behind the scenes doesn't make your game provably fair.

Just because a casino offers provably fair games doesn't mean they aren't cheating.  Likewise, just because a casino doesn't offer PF games doesn't mean they are cheating.

Consider your VP method of presenting several shuffled decks for the player to choose/cut, any casino (doesn't matter who)  using the system could easily just skip any deck that has the Ace and King of hearts or  AK of spades with less than 10 cards seperating them and royal flushes would hit half as often as in a fair game and solid proof would require a sample size of millions of hands.

If anyone could use your method and cheat players like in my hypothetical above, it's not a provably fair system.

I'm not enraged, I just find this stuff interesting,

1/ Well, I'm all the time talking slots, where in my eyes the equation is very simple:

implementation of PF closely following your 'purist' idea = crippled product

meaning we don't plan making any updates that would bring us closer to some of the baaad examples that have been mentioned above, even at the cost of not falling into pure PF category in minds of some.

2/ For PF VP, that I truly don't consider myself to be an expert on, I can def raise an idea and discuss the possibility of updating the shuffling mechanism based on your suggestion. Although personally I don't consider this enhancement as crucial.

3/ Where you see personal attacks, I only see 'brutal honesty' and call for equality. While I still don't understand why you only have a beef against one of our brands, and leave other two dozens+ at peace?! This is where I'm getting offended. Again, just a matter of opinion I suppose...

 I didn't come up with the idea of provably fair.  I'm just telling you that your slots and VP are not provably fair. 

THe way you do things is unique, you should tell players about it - it's kind of cool.  But don't tell them it's provaby fair, because it's not.

For your slots, you're proving that every spin has at least a 1 in 9 chance of not being a $0 outcome.  That's the only thing that your proving. Your players that trust you and have a basic idea of what 'fair' is, will be misled into thinking that you're transparent with your RTP, and that it's reasonable, and that all this can be proven.

(the way you check to make sure at least one outcome is not a loss is an example of your abililty to maniulate the outcome.  If you can do it in the players favor, you could do it to favor yourself)

For Video Poker, you're proving that when the player 'cuts' the deck, they're influencing where you start to deal...and that all the cards are there, but none of that matters if you can't prove that you didn't set the deck in a way that gives the house a bigger edge than a fair shuffle would.  If you can not prove that you did not manipulate the order of the cards, your game is not provably fair.

Again. If you can not prove that you did not manipulate the order of the cards before presenting them to the player, your game is not provably fair.

Ok, so for billionth time --

For slots it's a no go for reasons outlined above about a hundred times. For VP we will look into it and discuss potential enhancement. (And no, this does not comprise any sort of obligation things would get solved exactly in the way you suggest). I'm afraid that's as much as I can tell you.

Lastly, if you don't bash other brands labeled as PF with the same 'feedback' in a similar fashion, I'll still consider your action very much biased and ultimately unfair towards our brands. And unlike your various claims above, this is a solid, 100% true statement you can't argue with.

Over and out --

You've outlined why your games aren't provably fair very clearly.

How do you justify telling players they are?

If they're not provably fair, stop telling players they are.  It's dishonest.

I honestly haven't come across any other site that labels their games as provably fair that aren't.  Many of the sites on LCBs list I can't even find the provably fair games.  Several of them do have a few provably fair games, but mostly games that aren't.  There's nothing wrong with not having provably fair games.  The issue is claiming they're PF when they aren't.

Show me an example and I'll call them out too. 

Already did, but no worries. Instead of accusing you from lack of reading/comprehending skills in regards to most of what I said (most even multiple times!) which I would never humiliate myself to, I'll be a good boy and post the link for you again:

~~~ H ~ E ~ R ~ E ~~~

hoping you wouldn't miss it this time. Happy digging! 

I already addressed this:

Another site doing something dishonest is not an excuse for you to do something dishonest.  I'm only entertaining your request because I"m genuinely curious about this kind of stuff, but it's not really on topic since this is about slotland

So again, show me an example of a game or casino that's advertised as provably fair but isn't and I'll ask them about it like I did with you

For reasons why lie beyond my comprehension, you obviously dedicated considerably more time bashing our brands than doing research on some other ones  

This somehow leaves a stain of a severe bias on your moral integrity or so-called 'genuine curiosity'. Saying which is not any kind of insult, only stating a fact --

Anyway, less than two minutes of my time and checking on the first brand randomly picked from LCB list gave me this:

whose strong and bold statement could be a good starting point, considering the list of providers supposely falling under 'any game', no?

Just hoping you're capable of sifting through the rest on your own, coz I'm in no way acting as some silly partner-in-crime in your strange personal vendetta 

Alright, this really is becoming more and more awkward. I kindly urge you to stop spreading

1/ partial claims presented as universal truths
2/ personal remarks or convictions 
3/ or straight away lies or I no longer bother responding and feeding the trolls any longer.

So for one last time (for you and 2 other people left who are still following this 'lovely' exchange) --

Surprise-surprise, Slotland had never featured a single game labeled as Provably-fair, while we firmly stand by our opinion that all CryptoSlots games labeled as such, do fall under the PF category.

In closure --

I've just received a detailed assessment that I've tasked our Dev team to carry out, which fully confirms my above-mentioned statement repeated ad nausea, that all PF-labeled games at CryptoSlots do comply with the Provably fair mechanism as is.

I do understand that your opinion may vary, which I fully respect but we simply have a different opinion on the matter.

On another note, I also received an update about further enhancement to the shuffling mechanism of Cryptoslots' VP games, which has incidentally been sitting in the pipeline for quite a few months but wasn't implemented as of yet. The priority of this task was increased, will update when having an ETA.

Lastly, as I have nothing else to contribute to the discussion, this is my final statement on this matter as I need to dedicate my limited time here on the LCB forum to other duties that LCB members greatly benefit from such as handing away cashbacks (over $325k given out so far), or granting shop items (close to $80k given out).

Wishing you luck in your future endeavors, finallyfinally!

Good find with 7bet.  I left a post asking them about it in their support thread, we'll see how they respond.

If you become aware of any others let me know please.

The ad hominem attacks are out of line but I'll respond anyway by explaining what brought me here: MelissaN recently posted in this thread about provably fair games with a link to this article, which linked to an interview with Jack Jelenik: Slotland’s Provably Fair System Explained , which lead me to check out your provably fair system and realize it wasn't provably fair.

That's good you aren't labeling games as PF when they aren't on Slotland, but cryptoslots is still part of the slotland brand.  Jack Jelenik was correct when he told LCB in that interview "PF is essentially a mathematical method used to ensure that no one, neither the player nor the casino, can tamper with the game result." but unfortunatly the system your using doesn't do that, as both you and Robert have been made aware.

Assuming you're not Jack, is he aware of the examples I've brought to your attention?

Hint Hint

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Try it.....

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Hi Erica Henry,

Are you referring to our Rewards program? 

Mrshyde009 Crypto: une 6th 20.02 and 19.80 Slotland: june 5th 39.09 and 18.78 June 7th 14.79 Win a day june 5th 15.00 Request bonus exclusive promotion be applied to slotland.eu user mrshyde009

Hi Mrshyde009,

I'm not sure I understand your message. Are you referring to exclusive cashback? 

Yes I may have posted this incorrectly. New to lcb if so can u explain how u claim the exclusive cashback 

No problem at all. Please post your request HERE. 

Good luck!