CLOSED [due to inactivity of submitter]: Bitstarz Warning - are they bankrupt or worse

Bistarza warning - Are they bankrupt?

I have a withdrawal with them of only about 250 EUROS! They ask for a lot of documentation. They say:

copy of your passport
proof of address (utility bill sent to your home address last 6 months)
proof of payment method (screenshot from Skrill profile with postal address and your name visible)
proof of transaction (screenshot from Skrill with visible transaction to Bitstarz)
Once we receive these documents we will proceed with the verification immediately, which should not take more than 12 hours.

This is a lot of things to ask for such a small withdrawal!
But okay, I understand that these casinos might have requirements so I send them the information.

Do I get my withdrawal in 12 hours as promised? NOT AT ALL! It was a lie!

They then ask me for a picture of myself holding my ID! This is extremely intrusive and raises warning signals. Gambling is a very sensitive issue in my country. I send the picture anyway because I need my money.

Do I get my withdrawal now? NOPE!

Now they ask me for a picture of myself next to a street sign! This is the craziest thing I ever heard.

I can only guess that either they are going BANKRUPT or are operating some kind of SCAM.

Does anyone have good experience with this casino? What do you think?

Hi there,

Just to clarify some things here.

We have not taken any money from you, all we've asked
you to do is comply with the terms and conditions of sending
in the asked documents. This is nothing that we've come up
with, we're simply complying to the regulations of the gaming
license issuer, just as any licensed casino.

In case of additional verification, this would be asked for if
there were any concerns regarding the already provided 
documentation. This is also stated in the terms and conditions
that you have agreed to. 

I'm admitting that this is nothing that would be asked by any player
to provide, but when there are doubts about the documents you
have provided, additional verification (such as what you mentioned),
could be requested.

I'm sure the support has explained this already, and if you have any
questions, just let them know and I'm sure they're able to help you right away.

Again, the money is safe in your account until then (and you can log in and
see this for yourself).

Kind Regards,

Mike, BitStarz

I'm playing with bitstarz since the start.... and i can assure you they are no teif... they always pay and fast.

and we have to give them that.

the only bad side of there casino is they dont realy care if you are an old player who always spend money to there casino. if you dont deposit for a week they cut off all the nice bonus like free spin every week and somtime chip on friday....

even if it been years we are playing with them..... i think its sad... no loyauty to old clien...

but they always pay and they have always live chat.

[email protected]

Ok, taking a picture of yourself holding ID is pretty standard procedure. I have done it a couple of times, but taking pictures next to a street sign is just...insane. I can't stop laughing.

This is an excellent post topic for learning th best banking method to use and not really a negative on BitStarz Casino. I really have enjoyed BitStarz Casino. I have actually cashed out 3 times with Bitcoin balances without any problems. I previously made 3 BTC deposits and cashed out my winnings instantly. Using Bitcoins for withdrawals and deposits are instant transactions, safe, and easier to double/triple your funds and wins. I actually think some of the mentioned issues probably was because of the banking method that was attempted to be used to withdraw. I won many big spins from small bets on Snowmania and Rooks Revenge.  In my opinion, Bitcoin payment method is best without any hassles. I never had to submit any documents prior to my withdrawal requests.

And it's free to register a Bitcoin Wallet on most sites.

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Try Exodus Wallet

What regulation on earth requires you to request a picture of myself next to a street sign??

I notice how you had no special regulations to follow when you were accepting my deposits. It is only when you have to pay (EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT) that you suddenly have all these requirements you need!

Please explain how you keep changing your requirements every time I provide the documents.

I registered to play at your site because the reviews said you have quick easy payouts. Wow this was wrong.

Maybe I should use bitcoin to deposit like some people say but I am only learning to learn how to use that which I will in the future because it is great! I am sick of government intrusive shit!

Your request for selfie was unheard of by me and I have played online poker and casino for 3 years. The street sign request is beyond stupid!

Try to understand that gambling is very sensitive in certain countries for certain people!

you should ask for a photo of him so you can verify hes not laughing at you 

I think everything will be ok for you.

Hi there,

As mentioned, it would be when you've provided the documents that we feel are not enough to verify that you're the actual owner of the account. 

Of course, the vast majority of players don't have to go through this type of verification, that, we admit, but in your particular case, our payments and fraud department are not satisfied with the proof you provided, hence we are asking for additional verification as per out terms and conditions.

Again, it's not to make things more difficult than it has to be. We just require you do as asked as per our terms. If you could take a selfie with an ID, although slight inconvenient, I hope you can take one with a street sign.

Mike, BitStarz

@Jeanfr

Hi there,

Really happy you're enjoying the site and yeah, the Friday Loyalty Bonus
from Nick requires some activity in the week I'm afraid. If not, one could
just sit and wait for bonuses every Friday until the end of time I guess :-)

But yes, with regular deposits you would very rarely be left out of
getting spins of loyalty bonus :)

I hope you'll land a big win with us soon!

Mike

Show me where in your terms it says that you will ask this and show me which legal jursidiction law requires you to ask this. Also tell me why you were to happy to take all my deposits without trouble and only ask this now.

Also explain to me why you said you would pay the amount when you have my picture but then you break your promise and ask for picture next to street sign. 

DO you want DNA sample too?

Hi there,

"3.2.6. We reserve the right to use additional procedures and means to verify your identity (Know Your Client) when effecting deposits into your Account. This could include (but is not limited to) a selfie with a document or form of identification."

We have the right to preform a Know Your Customer procedure at our own discretion as well, but we're doing it in line with the rules set out by the gambling comission in Curacao, and as you haven't provided sufficient proof yet, we're not able to verify your account. If you provide us with the selfie with a street sign, that should be the last thing we have to ask for, as long as it deems to be legit.

The reason for not receiving the money after sending in the selfie is that the selfie provided raised questions within our verification team of you being the genuine holder of the account. As many people have said here in the thread knows, this is not common practice, but we have to be on our toes as a casino to prevent abuse. I'm sure many people here in the thread have gone through the verification process and had withdrawals sent fast, because they send in documents that we deem to be genuine, which would eliminate the argument that we do this simply to harass players.

In order to keep good offers in place, and provide the best value and gaming experience for our players, it's important to filter out the abusers from genuine players, so they can enjoy this. If we wouldn't be able to do that, we wouldn't be able to provide the offers that we have today.

If you are able to take a picture with you and the ID, why wouldn't you be able to take a picture with your street sign? You can keep your DNA.

Mike

I don't care what anyone says, that is the crasiest thing i have ever heard a casino do. Whether it is in terms or not, that does it for me .

The casino has reasonable doubt when it comes to this specific player. Indeed it seems quite unorthodox to ask for such type of verificaiton, but after personally speaking to them I believe they are well within their rights to ask for such.

@Figeria if you got nothing to hide you should comply with this request ( as much as furstrating and unordinary as it seems ) and ull get ur money if all good.

P.S.

These type of cases do not happen often and once in a while casino would need extra proof in order to verify someones identity. 

Hi Cat,

I do think you have a valid input and I fully respect your opinion. I beg you to understand
that 99.9% of players wouldn't have to through this, although that extremely small minority
might need to supply more details than normal due to something about the documents
provided did not go through the verification process.

It would be the same as a boucer at a bar deeming an ID not to be valid or failed
the verification process of that individual. If there's nothing wrong with your documents
to begin with, there wouldn't be an issue, trust me on that one :)

Mike 

If the only thing players see from the exchange with the casino is the fact that the OP is being asked to do something really ridiculous then all we can do is comment about what we see in the exchange. If there is a legitamate reason behind why then i coincide but it still does not change the fact that i have never heard the likes of this and maybe never will again. I am very interested to see how this plays out. 

there is a lot of identity theft and fraud going on, players have quite innovative ways to scam. Im not saying the OP is one of those, and its why Bitstarz wants to rule that out by asking for an extra verification.

In addition in the last several months there was an increased amount of fraud, abuse and so forth coming from Brazil . Many casinos got hit ( Slotocash and sister brands for instance ), and even LCB got slammed with multiple accounts and shop fraud coming from this country ( our own rules now exclude members coming from BR from claiming cash items from the shop ). And we are not talking just about one individual, there are rings of such players and sites dedicated to taking an advantage over casinos ( completely legal as long as there is no fraud involved which often happens to be the case ).

Of course no one is saying all Brazilians are like this, as its always the minority of fraudsters that are making it difficult for the recreational and honest player.

This is the first, well second time i have saw anything about this. The first would be in the Sloto cash thread.  It might not seem like it but it helps us as players know how to reply when we try to lend help to a player who posts a problem with a casino. It is hard to give constructive feed back on the best way to deal with a situation  if we have no idea that in trying to help, we might be dealing with a fraudulant situation. I hope it comes to light if this is the case. If not i hope both player and casino reaches some kind of resolution. 

Hi Cat50,

I do respect you opinion, but allow me to elaborate on why we're asking
for a street sign verification. ID's can easily be passed around, or people could
borrow friend's identities to open up multiple accounts in other people's names
in order to try to get bonuses, etc. We've even seen people in the past living
in different countries, lending out their identity to a friend in another country
to bonuses on muiltiple accounts.

There are also cases of players faking utility bills (which is the most common
one) and claiming to live on a different address than they actually do, which
is obviously breaching the terms of use. 

We want to believe that people are genuine but not all players are, and although
we know we're the casino, it's easy to forget that we're under contstant attack
from people who are doing their best to abuse the casino any way they can, 
and it's our job to prevent abuse and minimize the risk of harming a genuine player.

I'm not saying that OP is an abuser by any means, but what I'm saying is that she
failed the verification process and we need further documentation to be 100% able
to verify her identity and that she's the owner of the account.

On top of this, it's not like we're taking the money from this player and saying she failed a verification. We're simply asking for further documentation and we're giving the player the benifit
of doubt. The money is visible in the player account and she's able to log in to verify that.

As you might understand as well, we are not able to share all the details about this case
openly like this, but we are in correspondance with the admins here to give our full
side of the story.

If you've got any other questions regarding verification, feel free to ask, I'll be as
transparent as I can.

Mike

"That's profiling. And profiling is wrong."  ~Ron White

@bitstarz;@zuga

This is the most ridiculous request I have ever heard. It is disrespectful, demoralizing, and completely uncalled for.There are far more professional ways to go about verifying an individual's address and/or identity. There are plenty of reputable sites that offer services to verify an individuals address.  They are not at all expensive and you can utilize their services on an as needed basis. 

@kjeisenbarth 

I already explained why this is being asked of player. And knowing how much fraud is going on ( again not saying this is the case with OP , but there is a reasonable doubt knowing their initial verificaiton did not meet the criteria ), this is fully legitimate * even though unorthodox.

@kjeisenbarth

Hi there,

I'm not sure if I completely agree with it being disrespectful and demoralizing. Also, when it comes to this being uncalled for or not, I'm not being to be disrespectful when I say that it's a slightly bold statement as you haven't seen what we've seen. When it comes to verifying individuals addresses, that highly depends on what county it is (I would imagine).

On top of this, we have to remember that there's a responsibility here by both the casino and the player. We require that a player sends in legitimate documents in order to verify their identity, and if those documents do not meet the standard that is expected to verify one's identity, we have to ask for further documentation. 

Kind Regards,

Mike

It does seem ridiculous at first. I was right there with you. But it is called for as the Rep said the OP failed the verification process.

I have seen many topics about Bitstarz and this is the first time I hear about this. So this only goes to proove this is not standard thing they do, but in extraoridanry cases when there is a reason to suspect something odd, or when the original verificaiton failed.

I agree with a lot of different points that have been made. The only thing that puzzles me is why my posts were commennted on so much even though i am not the only or first one to point out how silly it sounds. Anywho i guess the oldest gets it . 

On a different note, i do agree whole heartdly the casino has the right to protect themselves from fraud but as  Key put it, there are a lot of other ways to do it.

As I said in my previous posting,  there are far more professional means to verify an individual's address.

It is my opinion that this request is disrespectful and demoralizing and uncalled for. It's an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. 

If you would, please?  Imagine, for a moment...

What would your reaction be if a bank, a government official, or even a prospective employer asked an individual to perform this task? 

I know what my reaction would be:           "_|_  _|_"

@Cat50 @Nirvana

Hi guys,

Just want to point out that we're not getting a thrill out of having to do this either. But I can assure you we also would rather sit and plan fun promotions for a players than having to sit and do this, but we have guidelines
we have to follow when it comes to verifying a player, and if something doesn't seem right
it's our obligation to ask questions.

I'm sure there are casinos out there who would just take the money form the player and say
they failed the KYC. But as mentioned, the money is in the player's account, and we're giving
the player an additional option to verify her identity.

I understand that the practice might seem unorthodox, I'd ask questions too. But then again
it's important to remember again that this is something that only a fraction of a percent of 
players would have to go through, and it's a last resort when all the other documentations
is not adding up.

Mike

@kjeisenbarth

Hi there,

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, and surely, if you went into a bank
or had to use a government agency for whatever that might be, and they asked
for an ID and you presented a fake ID let's say, they wouldn't ask you for a selfie,
they'd refuse you to use their services. Period.

We're at least giving the player a chance for redeeming herself here, asking for
what might be an orthodox way to verify her identity and proof of address, but
nevertheless an option when all the other ones are exhausted.

Mike

All standard "professional" means were exhausted already. The user failed to verify one of the docs.

You are entitle to your opinion however such opinion is not based on facts in this case. 

If you reasonably consider what Rep has stated then you should not have any shred of doubt as to if casino is well within their rights or not.

The difference is these are not online establishments and verification would be done in person in those case you mention.

Online Casinos are sometimes limited in ways to verify someone's true identity.

My reaction would be the same, but if I had nothing do hide I would do what is asked of me. It is inconvenient but thats all it is.

Funny, while we are back and forth about this the OP seems to have bowed gracefully out of the topic. I noticed they were last active 28min. ago. If it was me, i would have sent what was asked and gave the casino h&!!. Makes you wonder 

the OP needs to suck it up and do what is asked of him. Problem solved.

This is a fact. There were no problems with this player's address when they were depositing. Accepting their funds is the same as entering into a legal agreement. You deposit. You play. You win. We pay. Technically, the previous terms and conditions were modified when the casino accepted the player's money without having verified the required information. Garnering all the appropriate information is the casino's responsibility.  It's that simple. Why is the weight of this solely on the player? The player should be paid their winnings or the agreement should be annulled all together with the money invested by the player refunded. 

It is not the standard in online gambling industry to do KYC before making a deposit. No one does this ( with few exceptions in some instances ) .  Everyone knows this.
If you poll any player now, the majority of them would opt for KYC after they won. Most players do not want to do KYC before depositing as they want to play str8 away with their deposits. So you cant really use this as an argument against the casino.

With that said most casinos would accept the documents sent in advance prior making the deposit. Any player can do that on their own.

The money that casino has taken from any player can easily be refunded to the original account holder in case the player who made the deposit in the first place is determined to be a fraudster.

The casino is taking deposit in good faith expecting players to be legit. ( granted they all have their anit fraud and anti laundering protocols in place , but fraud can never be completely prevented ).  If a player is indeed legit which usually is the case then the KYC is an easy process with reputable casinos like Bitsrarz.

If a player is not legit or there is a suspicion or reason to doubt them , then you get additional verification.

Again I am stressing out this is quite an unorthodox request, but nothing less reasonable when you put things in perspective.

Fact: Player did not pass the verification. Result: additional verification is required and all per their T&Cs.

You may like it or dislike it, but in my humble opinion casino has very right to do this when you have a situation like this.

So now we have two potential scenarios:

1. Player complies with this request ( which I urge them to do ) and then they get paid if all in good standing.

2. Player does not comply, or does not pass the additional verification and then they don't get paid. But any deposits made in the process should be refunded.

LCB and I always strive to be objective. We are not here to defend anyone we are here to mediate and we are here to get the truth.

Anyways I said what I had to say about this complaint, anything else would be just running in circles.

You are all free to make additional comments of course but I really have nothing new to add at this point.

I get what you're saying, zuga.

 I am perfectly aware that there are only two viable options for this player. The casino's way or no way.  This is the reality of online gaming.

RE: KYC

When has a player's preference ever been a factor with regard to  casino security?  We're gamblers. There is not a poll result in the world that will change the fact that players will jump through flaming hoops if it means we get to land in front of a slot machine on the other side.  

Fraudulent gambling ring

 If I were part of a fraudulent gambling ring and the casino asked me to take a selfie in front of a street sign, I would be elated.

"Put you best selfie face on... because tomorrow is  our verification day field trip! Please bring two to four changes of clothing in a regulation size carry-on.  You should include a minimum of two wigs.  Remember:            accessories are your friend! Accessorize Accessorize Accessorize!!"

You say it's casino's way like they do this on a whim. The player is either legitimate or fraudulent. We will see soon enough which one is it.

You're not from the US, are you?  This might play a significant role with regard to personal perspective.  As a US player, my experience is far different than yours.  You don't have to agree with my views, but it might benefit you to know that they are born from an entirely different experience than your own.

I'm not sure how you're missing this, but the casino allowed multiple deposits without any problem.  I keep reading that this player is from Brazil and that there have been many instances in which a fraudulent gambling ring based in Brazil has taken advantage of several casinos and even LCB.  The fact that this player is from Brazil is only NOW suspect? Why didn't this fact have any bearing on the player's account when they were depositing?

So, no.  I am not saying that the casino acted on a whim.  It would be more accurate to say they acted when it suited them.  I don't believe Bitstarz is inherently bad. I have heard MANY great things about this group.  I believe, like you, they are looking at this issue from a personal perspective and fail to see the full scope of the issue.  Once they do, I am confident  they will handle it fairly, without prejudice and at the same time hold themselves accountable. 

this complaint is now closed. The player did not comply with the casino request for additonal verificaiton. The member also did not reply to our private messages, nor have replied here and havent been active in nearly two weeks.

You can make your own conclusions based on all this, but as far as LCB goes this complaint is closed ( we will reopen it in case the player gets back to us ).